Days of Noah

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by Minuteman, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    After a conversation with Watchman I started consolidating my notes on a study that I have been involved in for sometime. What the final evolution of this will be I have no idea. For now it is an avenue to consolidate my thoughts and share what I have to date.
    This study covers a lot of ideas and a lot of material. I don't know how far I will be abe to take it on here. We shall see. And the fact that I am out of the country and have limited and sporadic internet availability. So I will post what I have so far and invite you to follow this story as it continues to develop. I know that much of what I will be presenting here is a radical new way of looking at things. I hope that you journey through this with an open mind, reserving judgement until I am able to present the entire case. But of course, comments, and recommendations are always encouraged and accepted.

    I have been blessed in that I have had the opportunity to travel the world. I have seen places that most people only get to read about. From South East Asia to the Middle East I have seen first hand many of the cultures of the world. I have spent hours wandering the cavernous halls of the Cairo Museum, sailing the Nile River, stopping to explore the treasures of that ancient land that have awed people for thousands of years.

    I marveled at the artifacts left behind by these ancient people, but what amazed me the most were the things I never expected to see. I repeatedly, across the globe, kept coming across things that, according to accepted history, just shouldn’t be there.

    In South East Asia the monuments are true works of art, the craftsmanship amazing. A common theme is the Phoenix like bird. But something just wasn’t quite right about it. I didn’t realize what it was for years. Not until I came across the same type of anomaly in Egypt. Many of the birds had upright tailfins. No bird in nature has an upright tail. So what were these objects supposed to represent if not a bird?

    When I was exploring the temples and tombs of Egypt I had the greatest fortune to have as a guide a former history professor. To supplement his retirement income Abdullah worked as a guide. He could read the hieroglyphs to me as we wandered through these complexes. At one temple that we stopped at we came across a carving on the wall of the God Ra. Abdullah explained to us that Ra was a God of healing. The symbol for Ra’s name is the eye of Ra with a line through the tail. If this is hard to picture, it shouldn’t be. You have seen it many times. It is the RX symbol used today all over the world to denote medicine.

    While that was interesting, what the carving was portraying was more so. Ra is seated on a chair and in front of him, on a pedestal is a large bowl. Beyond that is a carving of 12 different instruments. My wife was with me at the time and she needed no explanation for what these were. She had been a trauma Nurse for many years and instantly recognized the surgical instruments pictured. No different than those used today, scalpels, forceps etc. And again, while interesting, not nearly so as what Abdullah began to read.

    The hieroglyphs around the scene are instructions to physicians. They say that clean, boiling water must be poured into the basin. And all of the instruments must "pass through the boiling water" before being used. Here on a carving, over 3000 yrs old, are instructions on how to sterilize equipment before performing surgery!

    I never heard this in my high school history class.

    I also saw and wondered at the similarities I found around the world, similar designs in artwork and architecture. Words that are nearly identical in the language of people far removed from each other. Cultural influences among these ancient and widespread peoples. An influence that history and science tell us should not exist.

    This piqued my interest and I began a journey of discovery that has led me to challenge every idea I had about our world and its history. One thing I came to realize was that science could not provide answers to many of the world’s mysteries. Science is a fluid thing. The accepted theories and beliefs that are held today are simply the most rational conclusions drawn from the available evidence. But the evidence is ever changing. And as new discoveries come to light the scientific theories change. What was accepted as fact yesterday has many times proven to be false today.

    Science tells us that the Earth is billions of years old and that it, and all life on it, has developed over millennia to reach the state that we find today. It tells us that humans came on the scene some 2 1/2 million years ago and began a slow evolution and development that culminated in today’s "modern" man.

    But this theory leaves many unanswered questions. There are far too many anomalies to be found that just do not fit into that hypothesis. Science cannot explain how primitive man suddenly gave way to a more advanced and developed man, the famous "missing link". The sudden appearance of cro-magnum man is unexplained by any scientific model. And science fails to explain how it took this primitive humanoid 50 thousand years to learn to tie a rock onto a stick and make a hammer, but it only took another couple of thousand years to develop a complete agricultural lifestyle. The sudden appearance of advanced agricultural, civilized communities around 2500 BC remains a mystery.

    As I began to study ancient history I realized that our knowledge and understanding of our ancient past is woefully inadequate. We base our assumptions on very scant and limited knowledge. Most of what we have learned from antiquity comes from the Greeks, yet less than 1% of their writings survive today. The evidence uncovered by the archeologists spade continues to cause science to re-evaluate its assumptions on our past. For instance after the discovery of the ancient Sumerian cities of Erech and Ur it was believed, and taught, that they were the earliest civilization. However, recent discoveries in the Indus Valley region of Pakistan and India have forced scientists to push back the dates for "civilization" by thousands of years.

    We have been taught that Neolithic man was a cave dwelling hunter-gatherer. Armed with primitive stone weapons, dressed in crude animal skins and living a basic survival lifestyle. Yet discoveries of 10,000 year old cave paintings in Altima and Lascaux France are of such a quality and finesse that they have been called the "Sistine Chapel" of prehistory.

    They are not the crude stick figure paintings we think of. These are fine works of art that would be at home in any museum today. The sophistication and techniques used show a highly developed culture. Many of the paintings are done in such a way as to make them almost 3D.
    Utilizing natural features in the cave walls, like holes for eyes and small cracks and fissures, the paintings of animals seem to breathe and look almost alive when viewed from certain angles. But most astonishing of all are the depictions of the people. They are in poses that would not be out of place in a portrait studio today and instead of the crude animal skin garments we would expect they are pictured wearing clothes and accessories that could have come from any modern store. The men wear tight fitting pants with waist length coats, boots and gloves. The women are wearing short sleeved pull over sweaters with close fitting breeches, gloves, garters, and slippers. One woman wears a pant suit with a short sleeved jacket, floppy hat and on her lap is a bag with a flap over it and a latch, identical to a woman’s purse today.

    And these are found all over the world, from Russia, China and Spain to the Kalahari Desert. They depict men in bright, multi-colored shirts with trimmed beards and well styled hair. Not the grunting caveman that we have been taught. The caves in France show no signs of habitation. The paintings are arranged in a sequence much like a display in a modern art gallery. Some are as much as 12’ tall and there are holes bored in the walls that show marks of the scaffolding that was used to reach these heights. Here is another mystery. Scaffolding is the result of sophisticated construction techniques. Not until man began to build houses and especially incorporate the use of masonry, did scaffolding become a required and needed tool.

    We are taught that "primitive" man only used the most basic stone tools. But archeologists have uncovered mines that are thousands of years old and scattered around the globe, from France and Spain to the continental United States. Yes the US. Some of the oldest and most extensive mines found to date are in the upper Michigan area. Iron ore and primarily copper mines have been discovered there that are thousands of years old. Some shafts run as far as 2 miles in a perfectly straight line. It is estimated that hundreds of thousands of tons of ore were mined from them yet none is to be found anywhere on the continent. In one mine on the Ontonagon River a cut block of copper was found that weighs an estimated 6 tons. It was levered up onto wooden blocks 5’ off the ground. It had been beaten smooth for easier transport.

    A prehistoric mine in Odessa, Russia has mining marks left in the rock that show perfect holes drilled and then skillfully cut with regular grooves to remove the material. Experts agree that this could only have been done with metal tools. In the areas surrounding many of these mines archeologists have uncovered settlements and remains of houses. But one thing missing near all of these mines is stone tools.

    A scientist familiar with these sites, Robert Charroux claims that the use of flint tools by our prehistoric ancestors was limited to only a few outcasts living a primitive existence, much like the natives of Borneo today. To label all of mankind by the example of a remote few is ludicrous. If the use of these types of tools was widespread we would have found millions of them around the world. But that is not the case.

    According to Charroux, "Paleolithic and Neolithic have never existed except in the minds of pre-historians".

    I was a teenager when Erich von Daniken published his best seller "Chariots of the Gods". I found the descriptions of unexplained ancient artifacts quite intriguing at the time. But his conclusion that these were "proof" of extraterrestrial visitors left me doubtful.

    It wasn’t until my interest was once again piqued while traveling in Egypt that I began to study and research our ancient past. One thing that intrigued me was the scripture that reads "And as the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man." Mathew 24:37

    If the world was to be "as the days of Noah", what were those days like? What do we know of our ancient past? Many say this passage simply refers to the mindset at the time. Possibly, but what if it has a deeper more literal meaning? I wanted to travel back to the "Days of Noah" and see what his world was like. And what I found was not what I expected. It has changed my entire perception of the past and of our future. I saw a past that was an entirely different world than any I had ever read about before.

    I don’t know if I accept all of the things that I want to present here. I am simply showing you another view of history, one that explains many of the anomalies that science utterly fails to. I liken this view to a large house, filled with many rooms. In each room are gathered different groups of like minded people. Each group has several pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. You have the traditional scientific community in one room, the theologians in another. Then you have the von Daniken crowd, with the Graham Hancock followers. You have a room with the Ufologists, one of the spiritualist new agers, the government conspiracists.

    And each group has managed to put together some of the pieces of the puzzle. And they extrapolate from that what the rest of the picture "must" look like. But what if you could tear down the walls? Gather all of the different groups together, with their individual pieces of the puzzle and lay them all out on a huge table. What would that picture then look like? What if there was an overall picture that would merge all of the different group’s pieces into one large complete picture? That is the picture I want to present to you here. I ask that you examine the evidence, and there is a mountain of it, before making a judgment. Some of it is quite credible, some fanciful, but none of it unacceptable.

    Much of the things I found in my quest were known to many but never widely reported. Much of it because it just didn’t fit into people’s accepted world view. Science is particularly guilty of this. Scientists put forward a theory, and over time it becomes accepted, becomes dogma, and then it becomes so ingrained that it is zealously defended against any who dare to question it. It becomes an almost religious fervor to squelch any dissent or opposition. This is done in one of two ways. Either it is scoffed at and ridiculed, or it is completely ignored altogether. Many well respected scientists have had their careers ruined, their lives shattered, by daring to buck the established norm.
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  2. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    So to reconcile all the pieces of our puzzle we will look at all the evidence, the scientific evidence, the physical evidence, the written evidence and the oral tradition evidence. I think these last two are where science has most dropped the ball. Scientists summarily dismiss the ancient writings that we have today as religious myth, legend, superstition, and folklore. Yet many of these written accounts have proven time and time again to be reliable, factual records.

    Homers tale of the battle of Troy was dismissed for centuries as Greek myth until an explorer and adventurer used the descriptions in the tale to lead him to the lost city. Homer describes a cup, decorated by doves that Odysseus drank from. That very cup was unearthed in the excavation of Troy.

    Herodotus described a distant land where Griffins guarded a golden treasure. Excavations at an ancient gold mine have uncovered vessels decorated with the Griffin motif.

    Mexican Indians told of a "Well of Sacrifice" where live maidens and valuable jewelry were tossed in as a sacrifice to the God’s. This was written off as tribal legend until the well was discovered in the ruins of Chichen Itza.

    The bible tells of the great nation of the Hittites and ancient cities such as Jericho, Ur and Erech. All dismissed by science as legend until uncovered by the archeologists spade.

    And the Indian Vedic scripts tell fascinating stories of the ancient past, written off as folklore. But recently many of the cities mentioned in these ancient manuscripts are being uncovered. Much older than the Sumerian culture, the Indus Valley civilization uncovered at Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa have caused scientists to push back the date for "civilization" thousands of years.

    To disregard these writings and to take no notice of folklore and supposed mythology, the true researcher does himself and his reader a great injustice. I do not intend to do that. We will examine all of the evidences, no matter what source they come from. Some will be dismissed, but some may prove to be the road map to Troy.

    So as all stories must, we begin at the beginning. The creation and evolution of Earth and its inhabitants is one of the most contentious topics in science. We all have heard the battle between evolutionists and creationists. But there is also a growing rank of secular scientists who are challenging the traditional models of accepted theory. These "Young Earth" scientists present very credible evidence that the Earth may well be many thousands of years old instead of many billions, as mainstream science contends. Not the 6,000 years of the creationists however, but hundreds of thousands of years.

    One evidence for the old earth theory is that things such as mountain ranges and great rifts such as the Grand Canyon would have taken millions of years to form. However recent advances in plate tectonics present a model in which the rising of mountain ranges could have occurred fairly quickly, geologically speaking. The violent collision of the earth’s plates could have resulted in these ranges pushing up in a mere few thousand years, not the millions always assumed. And rifts like the Grand Canyon and Niagara Falls could have actually been formed in just a few centuries.

    What of the very beginning, the creation of the Earth itself? The only resource we have outside of theoretical physics is the Bible. Would you be surprised to learn that they both agree?
    The sequence of events described in the first chapter of Genesis corresponds exactly to the sequence of events in the "Big Bang" theory.

    The first thing created was light. The big bang theory tells us that a quantum fluctuation resulted in a hot plasma, or light. "And God said "Let there be light, and there was light"

    This white hot plasma would begin to cool and would divide and form into solid objects.

    "And God divided the light from the darkness". And God said "Let there be firmament in the midst of the waters." It’s interesting to note that all computer models of the creation scenario portray this plasma as a fluid, hence the term "Fluid Mechanics".

    "And God said "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together in one place and let the dry land appear." As the Earth was forming, the spinning of the cooling rock would result in the formation of water as the ice crystals captured in the "Gathering up" process began to melt and these vast waters would rise to the surface and gather together leaving areas of dry land.

    The first life to appear is plant life, plants "yielding seed". A prerequisite for life is reproduction. Again in perfect harmony with scientific models.

    Next God makes "lights in the heavens" star light takes millions of years to reach the earth. And then he makes the sun and the moon.

    Science confirms that planets are formed by debris from the formation of a star being gathered up and caught in the stars gravity field and forms solid bodies. This process can take place while the star itself is still collapsing in on itself and before it reaches the point that it begins to give off light. Science also agrees that the moon was captured by the gravitational pull of the earth sometime after the earth itself was formed.

    Next in the Genesis story God creates life in the seas. Then after that birds emerge. After these come the mammals, cattle and beasts of the earth. And just as science contends, man is the last to emerge.
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  3. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Up to this point the scientist’s with their puzzle pieces and the theologians with theirs have formed the same picture. There is no disagreement. Not until we try to date these events. The creation of man is where the two camps take a very different path. The scientists claim that this creation process occurred over millions of years and that man himself first appeared about 2 ½ million years ago, and began a slow evolutionary climb to reach the advanced, modern man of today.

    But the theologians have a clear record of man and his generations, a record that goes back a mere 6000 years. This Biblical record has proven to be an accurate picture of creation, confirmed by science, and later proven to be accurate in its descriptions of ancient peoples and places. So how can it be so far off on the timeline for mans arrival?

    If it is proven accurate in all these other areas then perhaps it is not the record itself that is faulty but our interpretation of it. What if, just as in the creation, both sides are correct? What if there were a theory that reconciled the creationist view of this event with that of the evolutionists? I am going to present to you that theory.

    We have established that the events described in the first chapter of the book of Genesis correspond precisely with those put forth by science. It is not until we move to the second chapter that the division begins.

    Theologians have for centuries puzzled at the repetition of the creation account in these first two chapters. It has always been thought that chapter 2 was an elaboration and recounting of chapter 1. But is it? Why retell the story again? Let’s look at these two chapters and see if we might have been misinterpreting them all along.

    Comparing the creation story in Genesis chapter one to that told in Genesis chapter two is quite eye opening. Anyone who has ever attended a Sunday school class, and many who haven’t, can tell you that God said "Let there be light".

    In fact the entire creation tale in Genesis chapter one is God establishing a process that "Lets" the Earth bring forth. In fact God says "Let" a total of 8 times. "Let there be light" Gen. 1:3. "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters." Gen 1:6. "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together..." Gen 1:9. "Let the earth put forth grass..." Gen 1:11. "Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven..." Gen 1:14. "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures...". "Let birds fly above the earth..." Gen 1:20. "Let the earth bring forth living creatures..." Gen 1:24. And finally in Genesis 1:27 God creates man.

    Then we move to chapter two. It begins with "And the heavens and the earth were finished". "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created…" Gen. 2:4. This would seem to imply that some time had passed since creation, many "generations" in fact.

    But no "plant of the field" or "herb of the field had yet sprung up". But we have in Gen 1:11 the earth "putting" forth grass, herbs and fruit trees. But let’s read this second account again. No plant or herb "of the field". And the reason why was that first there had been no rain, and second there was no "man to till the ground". It seems obvious to me that this is talking about cultivation. There was not a man to till the ground, to grow the plants and herbs of the field. The next verse says that there "went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground". So moisture wasn’t the problem, it was the lack of a gardener to plant and tend them.

    Here again science and theology come together. A theory which has in recent years been gaining a following in academia contends that during much of prehistory the earth would have been surrounded by a canopy of water vapor. This canopy would have caused the earth to remain in a greenhouse like atmosphere that would have resulted in the perfect environment for a lush, tropical, and much larger plant life to thrive, just as the fossil record indicates. But eventually this canopy would become so laden with moisture that it would be unsustainable and would collapse.

    Another theory is that this water laden canopy was breached by an asteroid that caused it to collapse, causing massive amounts of water to crash down onto the planet and resulting in the worldwide accounts of a deluge.

    Back to our plants of the field. It is certain that it was not due to lack of moisture or that there were no plants at the time. It is clearly stated that there was "not a man to till the ground". So God creates one. "God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7 Then God plants a garden "eastward in Eden." Note here that the garden is not Eden, but was planted in the east of a geographical area called Eden. Then God "put the man whom he had formed" in the garden and he made to grow "every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food." Gen 2:8-9

    Let’s examine these two creations closely. In Genesis 1:27 we read "And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them."

    In Genesis 2:7 we read that "God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

    And what did he do with this creation? Genesis 1:28 he instructs them to "Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it."

    But in Genesis 2:15 God "took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."

    And it is not until sometime later that he "makes a woman" from a genetic sample taken from the man. Gen 2:22

    This is much different than the created man and woman of Genesis one.

    They are told to go forth, to multiply, and to subdue the earth. The man of Genesis two is "put" in one specific place, to "till and tend" to it. And it is not until sometime later that a "Helpmeet" or help mate is made for him. And they are not told to procreate. It isn’t until after the fall that children are born to them.

    And notice that God breathes the breath of life into this latter man and he becomes a "living soul".

    Imagine now that the events in the first chapter of Genesis, including the creation of man, and the events of the second chapter are two completely separate events, possibly separated by eons of time. In Genesis one God sets in motion a process and then "Lets" the earth bring forth. Is this a description of an evolutionary program? Could it have been that God got the ball rolling, so to speak, and created an environment where natural processes could take over and through completely natural and scientific means bring forth life as we have been taught in our history classes?

    And then could the "forming" of man in the second chapter have been a completely separate event that occurred millions of years after those found in the first chapter? Could it be possible that this entire debate of creationism vs. science can be attributed to a simple mistranslation of one word? Does the word man in the first chapter of Genesis and the word for man in the second describe two completely different creatures?

    The word used in the original Hebrew in Genesis two is "Adam". Adam is not just the name given to this creation, it is a description of his attributes. It means "ruddy" or red, as in blushing. Literally it means "to blush" to be red in the face. Is it not possible that the Adam man of Genesis two is not the same "man" of Genesis one, but instead a new creation that came along only 6000 years ago, over 2 million years after the man of Genesis one? Is it our folly and faulty reasoning to call anything that walks upright on two legs "man"?

    And what of the other things "formed" in this second creation. God deliberately took a hand in the "forming" of these new trees, plants, herbs and animals. There was no "letting" taking place in this creation. Was it a genetic alteration? Was it a greenhouse where God was cultivating a garden of genetically superior plants and animals, including Adam man, in preparation for sending them out into the world to "replenish" it? Another word that could be translated as replenished is replaced. Was Adam man to be the keeper and the distributor of new advanced life forms to enhance and eventually replace those that had developed through natural processes? To be the "Johnny Appleseed" of the prehistoric world?

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  4. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    This is a work in progress and I really have no idea how far it will go. It’s been said that I have several books inside of me waiting to be written. This may well turn out to be one of them.

    There is so much information that I want to share. But for now I am about to lose my internet connection so I will post what I have to date, and a synopsis of the rest that is yet to be written. I will work on this and whenever I re-establish an internet connection I will continue it here.

    The idea of two creations of man is one that is intriguing and very controversial. And it has the ability to be misused to justify hateful ideology. But there is mountainous evidence to support this theory. And theologians are just as guilty, maybe more so, as scientists of dogged adherence to established and accepted dogma. My philosophy has always been that if doctrine must be sacrificed on the altar of truth so be it.

    While much of this is mere speculation and can never be proven conclusively. It is a different way of looking at things. And if we refuse to consider all possibilities, no matter how remote, then we will never gain a full and complete picture. The puzzle will never be solved.

    I will continue to show that in this theory a creature that has been erroneously called "man" did indeed evolve and adapt for millions of years, but this creature lacked the mental capacities to ever attain the level of civilization that we have today. It was an engineered jump start, a genetic manipulation on the part of God, a creator, whomever you wish to refer to, but a direct purposeful manipulation of the genetics of plant and animal life on this planet.

    The sudden and inexplicable emergence of agricultural societies around the globe 4500 years ago is explained in this model as being the result of that divine intervention. Species of wheat that have over 20 more chromosomes than the prehistoric variety giving it a faster and heartier growth cycle, suddenly appears just after 2500 BC. Culture from the Indus Valley to Egypt, the Middle East, China and North and South America suddenly appear with written languages and highly developed social orders. How could this be?

    I will show evidence that while there was the grunting club wielding "cavemen" of tradition; they were the exception and not the rule.

    Primitive societies developed around the world but nearly every culture found to date has oral and written traditions that tell of a highly developed race of "Gods" that came to them in antiquity and taught them the arts of cultivation, animal husbandry and metallurgy. These stories span the globe.

    And these "ancients" possessed technologies that were as advanced, and maybe more so than those of today. I will show you the evidence, long ignored or blatantly suppressed, of roads built that are still in use today.

    Evidence of a power source that we can only guess at. Electricity and modern conveniences unearthed in prehistoric ruins. And stories from around the globe, again in nearly every culture, of an ancient people who possessed the power of flight. Great airships that regularly spanned the globe. Landing areas found at many hilltop and nearly inaccessible ruins.

    Things unearthed that could only have been created from an aerial view. Maps of the world that are admitted copies of ancient ones that reveal an accurate knowledge of the geography of the earth that has only in our lifetimes been possible. Maps that show the continent of Antarctica without the present ice cap. Showing mountains, valleys and river systems that only in the last 50 years have sonar and other methods to look beneath the ice found to be uncannily accurate.

    And the evidence that these were not visitors from space as some believe but descendents from the region of Eden that belonged to this genetically superior race that was introduced to the evolved world. A race that became wicked and proud and as with most developed cultures soon fell into a war with each other. A war that resulted in their near total annihilation.

    I will present to you the evidence of fortified cities around the world that show vitrification (melting) of the rock walls that defies scientific explanation.

    Skeletons found at a prehistoric excavation sites that, much like Pompey, show a sudden and violent end to their lives. Lying about in the streets of their city, some holding hands, seemingly dying in place. But there are no signs of physical violence, no ash from a volcano such as at Pompey, and the remains were untouched by scavenging animals. But the most puzzling feature, they were highly radioactive. On a scale with the remains of those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They are the most highly radioactive remains ever found. And they are not the only ones. The evidence of a worldwide nuclear war is everywhere.

    So why have we not known of this before? Why has the evidence not been presented before?

    Imagine if a war such as that were waged today, a war that very nearly annihilated the human race. How much evidence of that war and that race would remain after thousands of years? All things made of metal would have long since rusted away. Cities and buildings would have long since collapsed and been overgrown. What if the history of our world and our ancient ancestors is not the history of a slow development to our present day world, but instead a history of the survivors of an ancient world that rivaled our own?

    I will show you evidence of remains found in caves around the world that suggest a people taking refuge from a calamity, not the caveman of tradition but of a remnant of survivors forced back into a subsistence lifestyle.

    Stories from around the globe of caves where artifacts, libraries and machines from this ancient civilization were stored so that their technology would not be lost forever.

    Did we discover these storehouses in our very recent past? Has the unparalleled, inexplicable rise of modern technology resulted from the discovery of long lost ancient technology recently uncovered? Are the reports of UFO’s from around the world merely governments testing and trying to reverse engineer the flying crafts told of in ancient lore for thousands of years?

    So I have a lot of work to do to finish this compelling study. I will post a new chapter when I can.
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  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Note to readers of this thread:

    Please do not enter questions and comments about this thread in this thread. Start another, maybe call it "Days of Noah Q&A" or some such. The idea is to let the manuscript grow unhindered by side issues.

    And have patience. Minuteman is a long way from home and earning a living along with his studies. It could be a while until he can pick this up again.

  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Just an update. I am currently writing another chapter to add to this but I have found a few more books on the subject that I am reading at the same time to get a better perspective on some aspects. I will post the next chapter within the next week or 10 days. But I would love to have feedback and questions on the subject. So if anyone has any please let me know. That will help me to flesh out the storyline. Many times what we write is obvious and apparent to us but confusing to the reader.
    Plus there is such an enormous amount of material to cover. I have over 50 books related to this study in my library and currently 3 legal pads full of notes. The most daunting task is trying to determine what to include and what to leave out and in what order to present it.
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    It has only been in the last 100 yrs that science has told us of this Neanderthal creature and named him "man". Throughout the Bible when "man" is mentioned it is referring to Adam man. The creation of Genesis chapter 2. Another avenue for much misunderstanding of scripture is the assumption that it is talking about all of mankind. The Bible is written about one people, the Adamite line. It traces the origin and development of this race up to the time that a descendent of Adam, Abraham, is chosen to father the line that will fulfill the creators plan. The other people, nations and races in scripture are only mentioned as they relate with and come in contact with these Adamites.

    If we look at scripture, and at science, with an understanding that there are two creations of "man" then we can once again merge the two into agreement. Science cannot explain the sudden emergence of a developed, sophisticated, "modern" man and theology cannot explain the existence of this prehistoric, Neanderthal. But with the two creation theory we can accept both as fact. Many mysteries that have bothered academics for centuries can be cleared up by this one simple understanding. Where did the people of the land of Nod come from? Who was the wife that Cain took from there after fleeing the murder of his brother Able? Theologians have long asserted that he must have married his own sister. But isn’t this just making the facts fit the theory? Putting a square peg in a round hole? If we accept that there were other people in the world then this makes perfect sense. And the scientists also have been at a loss to explain how it took primitive man 50,000 years to learn to make crude stone tools, yet in the course of 400 years after the deluge they were gathered into sophisticated, civilized, advanced communities. They had in that time learned agriculture, animal husbandry, mathematics, writing, astronomy, metallurgy, construction, and art. In, let me repeat that, 400 years!!!

    These post deluge civilizations spread out from the central Turkish highlands and rapidly spread to Egypt, India, China, and the Americas. Fully formed, possessing an oral and written language, with advanced engineering prowess, and technologies that were in many ways equal to and even in some instances surpassing ours of today.

    This explosion of technology and civilization is one of the best proofs of an advanced antediluvian civilization that we have. The only other explanation comes from the Von Daniken crowd. They have assembled many of the same puzzle pieces in their room but they are coming up with a different "big picture". They theorize that this explosion of knowledge could only have come from contact with an advanced civilization. But they discount that civilization already existing here on Earth and theorize that it must have been extraterrestrial visitors that took a hand in mans evolution.

    But this theory has many flaws and tends to raise more questions than it answers. For instance if these ET’s bred with primitive humans the odds of having similar reproductive systems developing through evolutionary processes in two different eco systems is so remote as to be nearly non-existent. Even if artificial insemination were used the DNA compatibility of two different species is rare even among the species evolved here on Earth. The odds of finding a genetically compatible species from another world are astronomically small. Then there arises the question of their technology and sciences. All of the components of ancient technological devices and knowledge are known to exist on our own planet. If an advanced life form from another planet had introduced technology from their world you would expect to find other worldly ingredients. But that is not the case.

    So let’s bring the aliens visited us crowd into the room and add their puzzle pieces to the table.

    Science tells us that this creature they call man slowly evolved over the course of a couple of million years from an animalistic primate to a semi intelligent club wielding hunter gatherer, surviving from what he could find and kill. A savage beast-man ruled only by his basest instincts and impulses. Banding together for safety into a loose knit clan ruled by the law of the jungle.

    But science is completely incapable of explaining many of the puzzle pieces left behind by these "savages". Let’s look at some of these pieces and see if they suggest the accepted scientific model of "man" that we have been taught.

    As it is that science does not accept anything that cannot be seen, held, and examined as evidence. Let us forgo the mountainous evidence we have from written and oral record for now. Although these records, from all over the globe, record the same events, even the same names of people and the same themes. An occurrence that defies the odds of coincidence. The very amount of this type of evidence and its similarity worldwide is evidence that it is based on factual accounts. But more on that later.

    Let’s look at the physical evidence that these "primitive" people left behind.

    When Thor Hyerdahl built a small boat out of reeds to prove that ancient mariners could have crossed the Atlantic he had no idea that those ancients would have laughed at his "primitive" vessel.

    Egyptian open sea vessels were up to 350 feet long with as many as four decks.

    Ancient Chinese vessels have been unearthed that were up to 600 feet long and capable of carrying a crew of 600. Far larger than anything built by the later Europeans.

    Greece and Rome had luxury ocean liners over 500 feet long that had temples, swimming pools, and dining halls.

    In Sumeria,one of the most ancient cultures found to date, archeologists excavating vast libraries found a dictionary in the Akkadian language that catalogued 105 Sumerian terms for various ships. Listing them by size, destination, and purpose. Another 69 terms referred to construction techniques, manning and sailing.

    What use were these massive ocean going ships for simple inter-coastal trips. But science tells us they didn’t posses the technology for transoceanic navigation. Or did they?

    On Easter day, 1901, divers working an ancient shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikithera brought up a metal artifact that was to challenge all the "accepted" theories of how technologically advanced the ancients were. Dr. Derek Price of Cambridge University is quoted as saying "Finding something like this is like finding a jet plane in the tomb of Tutankhamen!"
    After 50 years of painstaking restoration, the "Antikethera device" was found to be a highly sophisticated computer that could plot the movements of the sun, moon, planets and stars and their positions. It could tell the movement of tides and the exact time of day. You could select a planet or star, turn the dials and knobs ahead to any month or year and it would show through a hole in the case its exact position at that time. You could check your position from anywhere on the planet, night or day.

    The early Scandinavians used a "magic stone" that could pin point the position of the sun, even when behind clouds or heavy fog.

    Accurate compasses have been unearthed in excavations from China, India, Egypt, Mexico and Phoenicia.

    Ancient records show a widespread contact between ancient cultures.
    A Tibetan manuscript from 300 BC contains a map showing a "green land" across the eastern sea (the Pacific).

    Greek navigators wrote of islands in the western sea (Atlantic) with a vast mainland beyond (N. America). And told of a place where "for 30 days end, the sun sets for little more than an hour, and for several months the night is faintly illuminated by the western twilight", A country where it was night for 6 months.

    Many ancient writings tell of lands that could only be North and South America.

    An ancient Chinese writing describes an expedition to a land across the sea, and describes what could only be sea lions in San Francisco harbor, gold nuggets found in plenty in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and the Grand Canyon.

    But science turns a deaf ear to these written accounts and writes them off as myths and legends. So let’s look at some more hard evidence.

    A rock carving in Lake Assawompset, Massachusetts was temporarily exposed during a particularly severe drought in 1957. On it were carved pictures of ships of Phoenician and Minoan styles.

    A stone found in Morgantown, Tennessee in 1885 had writing on it that was deciphered nearly 100 years later as ancient Canaanite.

    The Micmac clan of the Algonquian nation has an alphabet that consists of 2,000 characters of pure Egyptian hieroglyphics.

    Called the "American Rosetta Stone" a tablet unearthed in 1874 near Davenport, Iowa contains inscriptions in three languages: hieratic Egyptian, Iberian Punic, and Libyan. It is noteworthy that this discovery came at time years before the Iberian and Libyan scripts were ever deciphered. So it cannot be written off as a forgery.

    Evidence of trans-Atlantic trade is abundant in the Great Lakes Region. The 5000 year old copper mines of Michigan and other areas around the lakes have produced numerous ground slate knives found only one other place, Scandinavia and the Baltic countries.

    Columbus, Georgia, a stone with Phoenician script not used since 2000 BC.

    The Bat Creek stone found in Tennessee in 1970 has been positively identified as Hebrew writing.

    1973 in Georgia, a woman digging in her garden unearths a metal tablet containing cuneiform script called Classic Ur II, which was in common use in the Middle East 4,000 years ago!!

    These types of objects have been found in the thousands throughout North and South America.
    weegrannymush and Sapper John like this.
  8. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Shameless bump to this thread.
    I haven't stopped with this narrative just been really busy this summer. Vacation, two weddings, getting caught up when I got back to work. So I am working on some more to this and trying to decide which direction to go with it.
    I have been seeing a commercial on the History Channel about who really discovered America and one segment has a researcher holding up an object that he says is 24,000 years old. I have many books on this and it is really fascinating. I am watching for that program to air. I am currently finishing a couple of books on theses subjects.

    So, stay tuned!
  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    The following is a response to a thread started by Quig. I started this thread long before I had ever heard of the History Channel series "Ancient Aliens". I have since watched every episode to date. I was wondering when the topic would come up. The Von Daniken crowd has been very active recently in promoting their particular theory. But as in the above I regard them as one group with only some of the puzzle pieces. They exhibit the opposite of hubris in that they cannot accept or even entertain the idea that anything more advanced than we have today, or as advanced, could have developed right here on earth. They don't have the faith in man to accept that our ancient ancestors could have developed advanced technologies without extraterrestrial help. And they will refer to many ancient texts to further their point yet fail to seriously consider the most ancient and proven reliable one of all, the Holy Bible. I am glad to see this series presented and it's popularity, yet I have to be concerned that too many will accept it's premise without serious and cynical scrutiny. I am still deeply involved in researching this topic and some of my original hypothesis has had to be rethought. As I uncover new thoughts, new theories, new evidences, my theoretical model changes somewhat. I believe this is the only way to be scholarly honest. If one sets out to prove one and one only view point, such as ancient aliens, then that is all you will find. And anything contrary to your preconceived theory is disregarded or twisted as to fit into your mold. I am trying diligently to avoid that. I let the evidence lead to the conclusion, not the other way around. MM

    I have a thread in the F&R forum about "The Days Of Noah". This is a subject I have been deeply studying for many years now. I was very interested in the Ancient Alien series and have the entire collection that is on DVD so far. It covers much of the things I have been studying for over a decade. However the AA crowd and the Von Daniken groupies reach quite a different conclusion than I. I don't believe that there is any doubt whatsoever that our ancient ancestors possessed equal and possibly even more advanced technology than we do today. Only my research takes it to an area that they refuse to consider. I cannot watch an episode of the series without laughing out loud at least once. They do a fantastic job of presenting the evidences of ancient technology but then they jump to the wild conclusion that this could only have come from aliens! Why? They do not even consider the premise that our very human ancestors might well have been much more advanced than we have ever been taught. Our entire knowledge of ancient history derives from what was left from the Greeks. And it is estimated that less than 1% of their knowledge survives. Reference the Roman burning of the texts in the famed library of Alexandria to heat their baths! So much of the ancient world is a mystery to us. But there is so much evidence being uncovered that supports this theory that only one with a bias or a contrary agenda can turn a blind eye to it. To just make a blanket assumption that any evidence of advanced technology must have an extraterrestrial origin is ludicrous.
    I need to update that thread but I have been deep into the study that I have not had the time to organize my research. I feel like this study will probably turn out to be my life's work. The basic premise is this;
    The creation of our Earth and everything on it is corroborated by science. There is no conflict in the two. The only conflict arises in our interpretation of the two. A creature was created in Genesis one but have we made a great error in calling it "man"? The race of "man" was created in Genesis two. The antediluvian "man" was much more hardy, taller, stronger and longer lived than the creature of Gen. 1. It is his descendants who spread post flood to all the world to bring the scientific knowledge of civilization, agriculture, animal husbandry etc to the primitives living in the far flung reaches of our planet. And it is this race that held advanced technologies that we can only guess of today. The ancient writings that exist tell of these men having the ability of flight. The ability to span the globe. The ability to create and use weapons of such power that they have only been replicated in our life times. My premise is that there is ample evidence that this advanced race interbred with the lower primitive humans and began a degeneration of their unique physical attributes. See the second law of thermodynamics. Everything in nature regresses downwards, it does not progress upwards(a major fly in the ointment of evolution theory). These peoples became the "gods" of legend and myth. The pantheon of Greek,Roman and Egyptian "gods" were no more than the descendents of these ancient advanced humans.
    But being human thy also exhibited the all too human trait of aggression. They eventually went to war with each other and very nearly destroyed the earth in the process.
    My theory is that the "caveman" of legend is no more than the remnants and survivors of this ancient cataclysm. Taking refuge in caves to escape the "nuclear" winter that they themselves had created. Much of their technology was stored in these caves and ancient underground shelters. And it is my belief that only in our lifetimes has this lost technology been rediscovered. That many pieces of this technology has been recovered, and that over time scientists and governments have reverse engineered a lot of it to give us the huge and all too improbable leap into the technological age that we have seen in the last century.
    This theory I am working on reconciles all the different views and theories under one simple umbrella. The creationists and the evolutionists, the ancient alien theorists, the UFOlogists, the Von Danikens and the Graham Hancock followers. I liken this to a bunch of people in a large house, each group put in separate rooms and given a number of jigsaw puzzle pieces. Each group will put together different sections of the big picture and will extrapolate theories on what they are seeing. But each group will invariably come to wildly differing conclusions. Not until the walls are torn down and everyone's pieces come together on one table can the whole picture be seen. I believe that this theory I am working on, once completed, and once I have gathered and presented all of the evidence, all of the puzzle pieces, will do just that. I am currently reading one of over 100 books that I have on the subject. I have just last summer purchased and watched all of the AA series. I have been to many places to see and investigate first hand many of the things that you may hear of in that series, and many you won't. I have been to the Cairo Museum and seen the "Saqqara Bird". I have been to many of the great monolithic structures whose construction defies logical explanation.
    I will eventually complete this work. It may not be until I retire in a few years and can devote my entire time to it. But like I said I feel it will be my life's work when it is finished.
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