Deep winter gardening or how to feed yourself in the coming Ice Age:

Discussion in 'The Green Patch' started by DKR, Mar 11, 2019.


  1. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Yes, heating mass can be very efficient. There are a couple threads on site addressing thermal mass heating. Cobb stoves, IIRC. While they use burning fuel, there's no reason why another heat source would not do as well. Concrete is funny stuff, there are some considerations needed, specifically in providing for expansion and contraction, but should work well.
     
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  2. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe



    attached greenhouse helps to heat home.
     
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  3. Sobospider

    Sobospider Monkey

    T
    I lived in a house that utilized this idea for a few years. The amount of heat this puts off is significant.
     
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  4. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

  6. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Slides right off the 45 degree part on ours, the 30 degree top, not so much. :D
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. DuxDawg

    DuxDawg Monkey++

    It's NOT "-90".
    It's "near 90F degree temperatures"
    Suspect the confusion comes from an unfortunate typo, or a grammatically clumsy attempt to set off the temperature from the rest of the text.

    From the article:
    "Yet here are green vegetables, kale and lettuce, growing in near-90 degree temperatures. They're thriving in a specialized "deep winter" greenhouse, letting farmers Tom Prieve and Sue Wika grow fresh vegetables year round -- without a crushing electric bill.

    Their plants survive largely on natural winter light. Fans force rising heat down into a rock storage area, part of a passive solar heating system that captures the day's warmth and releases it at night. On cold nights, a gas heater kicks in to help keep the temperature at 42 degrees. There are no banks of artificial lights.

    It's a different kind of greenhouse, mixing technology and old school ingenuity to create an energy efficient winter farm. University of Minnesota researchers say the idea is starting to take off. About two dozen deep winter greenhouses can be found now in Minnesota."

    And yes, that heater would have to be producing a tremendous amount of BTUs!!
     
  8. DuxDawg

    DuxDawg Monkey++

    Excellent point.
    Greens are basically Nature's multivitamins. Vitamins alone won't sustain us though. Gotta have those calories!
     
  9. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    According to a 1993 study by researchers Gene A. Giacomelli and William J. Roberts of Rutgers University, plastic (polyethylene) film, is the most popular glazing material, mainly due to its low initial cost. It is fairly inexpensive to install, requiring a relatively limited amount of other structural materials, especially when used in a Quonset-style construction. Additionally, if you install a double layer of polyethylene plastic film with an air space in between, you can reduce your heating costs by up to 40 percent versus polycarbonate, glass or fiberglass.

    Other advantages to plastic film are that it is a great diffuser of sunlight, allowing for intense light at the canopy level of the greenhouse. It also produces few shadows because fewer braces and trusses are typically used in constructing a polyethylene greenhouse. It is a great choice for first-time greenhouse growers.

    The real question of film is life expectancy.

    here is some interesting reading on the topic
    Choose the right plastic film for your needs
    Plastic Greenhouse Film Update
    Greenhouse film, Tunnel film - All the agricultural manufacturers - Videos

    Given the rise in hailstorms and the growing size of hailstones produced, glass and polycarbonate may be an expensive mistake.

    and a link to other sites/articles on films for solar heating
    Films to Increase Solar Collector Efficiency - Renewable Energy

    of greater interest - Greenhouse / Sunspace Design for Solar Heating & Trombe Walls for solar heating.
     
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  10. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

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  11. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

     
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  12. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Interesting. Urban farmers that sharecrop urban lawns. First I've heard of this idea.

    Trouble is, most McMansions have tiny lots and very small yards.....
     
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  13. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    there is a guy in Canada that farms his neighbors yards. someone posted it here.

    @DKR i thought the numbers were interesting towards the end ... 1000 sf of greenhouse could supply fruit for 10000 people. have no idea how he came up with that number.
     
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Agree, I think he dropped a few zeros.
     
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  15. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    I think those figures are WAY off unless "supply 10,000 people" means a piece of fruit per year. :D

    Based on our 720sqft house that we double-triple crop per year, you can adequately supplement the food needs for 2 people........but that's about it.
     
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  16. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I think they were off too @TnAndy
     
  17. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Our 4 year rated plastic is in it's 5th year. Will probably replace it this coming spring. For this change out, I bought two different types. The regular 4 year for the top layer, and a heat reflecting type for the bottom layer. We use a small inflator fan to keep air between the layers.

    The first small greenhouse we did, I used triple wall 16mm thick polycarbonate panels. They are WAY more expensive than several changes of poly film, so will likely stay with that from now on. Shipping is the price killer on polycarbonate....they have to build a crate for the panels, and if you get into long lengths, the crate + shipping get cost prohibitive. It does, however, insulate far better than poly, even double layer.
     
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  18. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    oddly, we are seeing urban farming in the abandoned areas of Detroit. Not lawns but entire neighborhood..I’ll put up photos later today
     
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  19. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Whole blocks of housing have been demolished and removed, including the streets.
    Farming has moved in (I'm sure the taxpayers are subsidizing, but that is another post)

    No matter the incentive, it is interesting to see
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Marigolds for chicken feed - for better color yolks.

    good chow
    [​IMG]
     
  20. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    World's largest urban farm

    In Paris (France, not TX)

    on a rooftop?
    [​IMG]
    yes, indeed.

    Rooftop urban food production, using 'waste' heat from large, and multistory buildings is being a thing in many areas
    [​IMG]
     
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