dhs to fly its own "birds"

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    satellite surveillance turned on the"homeland"( I hate that term).

    Cyber-security program coming too.

    WASHINGTON -- After delaying a domestic satellite-surveillance program for more than two months, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff expects to finalize a new charter for it this week, a move that attempts to quell civil-liberties concerns and get the program back on track.
    Mr. Chertoff also plans soon to unveil a cyber-security strategy, part of an estimated $15 billion, multiyear program designed to protect the nation's Internet infrastructure. The program has been shrouded in secrecy for months and has also prompted privacy concerns on Capitol Hill because it involves government protection of domestic computer networks.
  2. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Protection scheme hmm... didn't we used to bust gangs for doing this ? Didn't we call that racketeering ?

    I'm not saying they are going to squeeze money out of those protected. But to protect networks you have to control access control the information. Isn't this one of the steps to subjugate people ? I for one DO NOT trust the governmet not to abuse that and turn it into subjugation.
  3. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I don't like it ,don't like it one bit...got this strange feeling these are the good old days...
  4. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Yeah, the good ole' days. The internet used to be a community of the educated, the egalitarian free thinkers. Now that the rest of the world came in it is just as seedy, corrupt, biggoted and trashy as anywhere else.
    The government and LE in general bring their own unique ills to the net.
  5. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    I wholeheartedly agree, Hartage.
  6. MbRodge

    MbRodge Monkey+++

    "Demands to justify the congressional legality of the satellites, which were originally mandated for foreign surveillance, followed the revelation that a new department branch called the National Applications Office would oversee the program and be responsible for providing images from the satellites to non military law enforcement agencies.
    Critics have called for cuts to DHS funding, stressing that the program is in direct violation of the Posse Comitatus act, which prevents the use of military for domestic law enforcement. It also violates the fourth amendment as the satellites are capable of seeing through the walls of people's homes.
    Domestic intelligence and security agencies are now receiving more funding for spy satellites than the military."

    I'm an Imagery Analyst for the USAF and I swore an oath to defend the constitution. I'm glad the .gov knew better than to try to make me be part of a program like this. That last sentence scared me a bit though, more money for spying on Americans than for spying on our enemies? Really? W.T.F?​
  7. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I was not aware that such technology existed :shock:

    I hope they can see this [finger]
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Infrared can not quite "see" but can detect the heat of bodies thru walls under the right conditions. Taken in context, some conclusions can be drawn from positions, say thru an underinsulated roof. One might conclude that those two hot spots that just merged in a horizontal position are not just having dinner. Distressing, but true. So, make sure your ceiling is well insulated, it'll save you heating money as well as showing up on youtube.
  9. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    I highly doubt it is infrared or even close. As light travels through the atmosphere distortions occour and from 80 miles away it is bad enough to get just atmosphere distortions. Add the distortion a solid object (roof and it's ancilary items and construction) and I don't think infrared would be usable from space. Radar however is a whole different ballgame. Phase array radar resolution has gotten accurate to the degree that we can identify different vehicles against solid earth from aircraft mounted radar. Microwaves are also less prone to atmospheric distortions. I would bet more likely technology used to see through walls if it does exist at all would be phase array radar. Maybe even phase array capable of analysing backscatter effect from space. Also phase array could have a much larger collector at minimal weight gain. Unlike optical systems. Mere speculation on my part though.
  10. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Some 20+ years ago I worked for a government entity, and forgive the cloak and dagger stuff, but I don't want to say who what when or why in a public forum. But we had back then many things that are only now becoming common knowledge as "new" technologies. That makes me wonder what has been developed in the intervening years that we are yet to have any knowledge of.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Gotta admit I was thinking more along the lines of airborne rather than space borne platforms. Infrared is quite useful for 0-dark30 surveillance, even from fairly high altitudes. Yep, pretty useless from space. Phased array radar is another whole thesis, but as high res as it is these days, it isn't too good thru solids, tho' it sees them very well and in high surface detail. In the open, I would not be surprised to learn it can differentiate between C and D cups, but it cannot see thru them. I believe (but do NOT know) that these ground penetrating radars are fairly long wave as radars go, and I do know that you have to be up close and personal for them to work.

    IIRC, backscatter technology (including meteor burst) is currently useful only for comms.
  12. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Big +50 to what MM said. I had a budd who was spec ops during Vietnam and while a bit bulkier back then, they he had used a scope that had 3 setings for normal, NV, and IR, they also had used burst radios of a sort that is just recently becomeing more common knowledge. I had also been told about 20 years ago by a guy who claimed to have used it in his job and was credible that they had the technology that could be mounted in a chopper and could both see and hear everything in your house as they flew over. While it probably was the IR and bionic ear stuff back then since his job wasnt even military or intelligence, it was still tech that is still generly thought to only be in scifi. Point being that you an genneraly assume that for any technoligy useful for survalence, comms and general military use, the gov/mil is probably at Least 20 years ahead of the market. What do you think would be possible with technoligy in another 20 years?
  13. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Suggested Viewing:

    Blade Runner
    Logan's Run
    Soylent Green
  14. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer


    "terahertz wave imaging technology.iirc it's/was fairly close range(?)
    • UAV Reconnaissance Sensors
      For use in unmanned air vehicles (UAVs) requiring compactness, light weight and low power under multi-spectral conditions.
    • TeraHertz Imaging Sensors
      For through-wall imaging of objects and human bodies.
    • Dime-sized Solar Converters
      For providing auxiliary power to commu"
    • http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMZ1R1A6BD_Improving_0.html
  15. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Backscatter is being used in imaging quite a bit nowadays. Backscatter x-ray is being used to take clothes off people. (new airport xray) I read backscatter from multiple radar emitters and multiple receivers (different locations) being possibly be used to detect "stealth" aircraft.

    Backscatter if I am understanding it correctly is simply analyzing a signal refected off something from multiple points even on the same array. Each separate point (receiver) will have different information on it that as a whole can be built to form an image that would be unavailable to any single point. Kind of like a eyes or ears. Each eye and ear gets slightly different information. Analyze the differences in arrival time, phase shift etc and you can get more information from two than you can from one.

    A single point of analysis might yield you the reflection of something. Multiple points will yield you not only the object but possibly it's surface contours.

    Your eye works in much the same way. You have an array of cells at the back of your eye that analyzes the backscatter of light from the object you are seeing.

    The advantage of microwaves vs light is it's resistance to interferance by the atmosphere.

    There might be some uber new technology out there that they are using. But I mentioned phase array radar because to me that technology is closest to acheiving seeing through walls from space.

    Forgot to add... we already use radar to see what is below the surface of the ground. I imagine the HUGE variance of density of airspace vs solid objects inside a house would make it that much easier for radar to image.
  16. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    It also wouldnt surprise me to much if some clever fllow had figured out how to manipulate and or read thing useing the earths magnetic fields to do something quite limilar to MRIs which create (in a close area with artificaly created magnetic fields) images of all leavels of the subject so the viewer just peels back as many layers as wanted or needed to view in all 3 dimensions whatever they want to look at. If so then it would be totaly conceavable to be able to look at people inside a structure even to the point of looking at their internal organs (or say their dental work) or with a few key strokes back off and see the image of the people and objects in the room and their interactions then by monitoring the vibrations of the structure possily listen in as well even fro a great distance.

    May not be so but such things existing and being under wraps would not surprise me at all.
  17. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Eh, who knows.... they had supersonic unmanned flight decades before it was declassified. I believe we had stealth aircraft in operation at least 8 years before it was made public. I imagine government policy has not changed much concerning their newest toys.
  18. Evenglischatiest

    Evenglischatiest Monkey+++


    These are hand held, not space based. But as others have already pointed out, this is only the commercially available technology. The good stuff may well be satellite based.

    Considering they're supposed to be "commercially affordable," I'd expect one in every police car within a decade. They can see through 3 inches of steel. Does anyone think they'll get a search warrant every time they turn one on? Me neither.
  19. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Geez, I had no idea they had a handheld unit. The geek in me wants one sooooo bad.
  20. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Could be cool to have.
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