Dirty Harry says

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by chelloveck, Sep 15, 2011.


  1. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Follow the money flow from publicity; it buys "rights" and supports the protestations. A bit of private seed money, and dot gov chimes in with a whole orchard.
     
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I like to sex. Don't have parades about it, don't have quickie-pride days, don't politicize it and don't ask anyone else's opinion about it except my partner or partners. I especially don't ask anyone's opinion about it or approval of it. Don't want to watch TV shows about it, don't want to see anyone else making issues about it. Whoopi-****...you got a personal preference.
     
    Seawolf1090, Guit_fishN and BTPost like this.
  3. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    I work with more than a few gay people and this hallway chatter used to come up frequently. I didn't do a lot of talking, mostly listening and from what I've heard, I've reduced the issue down to benefits rather than the ability to be married in a church with cake and cans on the car.

    If you're married, you are entitled to your spouse's benefits: medical, death, dental, etc. Here's an example scenario: co-worker Pat's life partner Sam has a chronic medical condition and has a job with no benefits. To purchase insurance, Sam has to fork over about 1/2 of a paycheck. Pat would like to have Sam enrolled in the family plan of Pat's insurance with their two adopted babies from China, which wouldn't be that much more than Pat pays now. If Pat and Sam were married, this wouldn't be a problem to the insurance company. However, since they're not, no insurance for Sam.

    I think I'm right because since the federal government extended benefits to same-sex spouses, I haven't heard anyone complain anymore. Obviously, my evidence is anecdotal, so, if you're gay and always dreamed of a big wedding with your partner, I'm not trying to diminish your desires.

    If insurance wasn't so tied to your job, gay marriage wouldn't be such a big issue. Maybe I'm naive, but I think it's all about benefits.
     
  4. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Never seen such bright people take the bait so fast!
    It's HS football night have fun.
     
    Opinionated, tulianr and Alpha Dog like this.
  5. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    All I ask is for others to show me respect and I will return the favor. In martial arts there is the mirror and the lake; the mirror reflects back whatever it "sees." Throw a smile and get one; throw a punch and get more.
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  6. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I think there are vast differences in the intent of "marriage" between the contemporary Christian view and other religious and cultural perspectives. Marriage to many is viewed in context of property rights. As our society has evolved, we have moved away from convenience, property, and empire building toward the relationship between a man and a woman. It has been an evolution that is fraught with unreasonable expectations resulting in failure. I really don't understand how a legal marriage between two gay people can possibly bring down western civilization any more than a heterosexual one.

    As an formerly married woman with a healthy interest in the opposite sex, I have witnessed society treating me differently as a single woman than a married one - as though I had less value in their eyes, as though there were something wrong with me because I have chosen a lifestyle that runs contrary to the norm. Being a bit of a rebel, that's okay with me but I've lived my life by my choice, not as one mandated by the government.

    Meaningful emotional relationships are hard to come by and I just think that when a loving bond can be formed between two people, does their gender really matter?

    We can all come up with various biblical passages to support our opinions but what it comes down to in the end, in my opinion, is that the God I believe in is forgiving of our frailties. If I'm wrong in my viewpoint, my God will forgive me.
     
  7. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I think I like your God better than the God that is trotted out by so many others.

    “You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” - Anne Lamott
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

  9. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Sadly, we only get one side of the story here, since the school won't comment. I'd be a little surprised if the event happened exactly as the young man attested, unless the teacher is a bit unbalanced.

    In any case, most fourteen year olds believe whatever they are told to believe. He learned to wipe his own butt eight years ago, and now he understands God's plan for mankind. Really?

    Most kids don't have truly independent thoughts until they are out of their parents' house. That is when they begin to figure out what they actually believe, instead of what they were told to believe as a child.

    Some people never do make the leap to independent thought, and continue to plod through life being told what to think by others. A sad existence, to my way of thinking. Our society's institutions - school, religion, politics, etc. - don't exactly encourage independent thinking.
     
    chelloveck and BTPost like this.
  10. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    And do not both sides of the issue represent agendas that are being pushed?

    What comes out of many pulpits, conservative or progressive, represents an agenda no less than that which issues forth from political action committees and other secular organizations. It's all about shaping the minds of the masses.
     
    chelloveck and BTPost like this.
  11. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    I don't give a rat's patooty if someone wants to have 'relations' with a man, a woman or an inanimate object - I do set the limit at barnyard animals (they don't get a choice)......
    Just don't parade it in public, have some danged 'decorum'.

    The worst problem I see with this young man is not that he offended the over-sensitive teacher (who may or may not have been gay) - but that he is being severely punished in a way that could impact his future, for having a DAMNED OPINION. Very poorly done on the school's part. If they don't redress this wrong, I'd be pulling my kid out of that institution....... He's not getting the kind of 'education' I'd care for my kid to get.
     
    BTPost likes this.
  12. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    The teacher's agenda is a bit more than inappropriate for a German class, don't you think?

    If it was one single event with teacher, it wouldn't be an agenda. Since its recurring, yes. This is just one example of this sort of "in your face, accept it or else" attitude. Personally, I don't care what the German teacher's beliefs are and he should check them at the door.

    The parents have a right to educate their children on religious matters. Teachers should respect that. If the kid doesn't believe its right, so be it.
     
    BTPost likes this.
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have had such ISSUES, with Educators that taught my children, when they were in Public School. Believe 'Me" when I tell you that No Principal ever wanted to have a Second Run In, with Me, over an ISSUE, about what my children were being taught. Inappropriate may be in the eye of the beholder, but I, as a Parent of the child, in question, decide what is Appropriate, and what is NOT, for my child. I have pulled my child, out of Class, with inappropriate Teachers, and Teaching Plans. Gone PUBLIC, and created a HUGE Stink, when these ISSUES, have come up. Never had to hire an Attorney, to get things set Right, because once the ISSUE, went PUBLIC, other parents were at the Doors, doing the same thing, and School Boards have very HARD time dealing Irate Parents, when there are more that two or three. Principals have retired over such ISSUES, and teachers, have moved on, to other climates as well..... ...... YMMV.... but shouldn't.....In my opinion....
     
  14. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I agree that no agenda, other than that of education, needs to be pushed in the classroom. The homosexual rights agenda, minority rights agenda, and any other agenda, needs to stop at the door.

    I would like to hear the other side of the story, and know exactly what was said by the student, in what words, at what volume, in what context, and with what attitude. As it is, we only have the fourteen year-old's side of the story.

    I am certainly not supporting the teacher, from what I read in the article. Homosexuality is not an appropriate discussion topic in a German language class, and that teacher needs to be removed from his position; if indeed he has introduced that topic in his classes. The student should not be reprimanded for expressing his opinion, respectfully; if that had been an acceptable topic of conversation in that classroom, but we don't get the whole story in this article, and likely never will.

    My point is that while I do not believe homosexual advocacy is an appropriate topic for discussion in a classroom, particularly language class; neither do I believe that religiously based condemnation of homosexuality is an appropriate topic in a classroom. Everyone has a right to their opinion on homosexuality, and on any other topic; but there is an appropriate place to express that opinion, and the classroom is not it.

    I taught in the military for several years, and I know how discussions within the classroom can drift into dangerous waters; and it is the teacher's job to control that drift. This teacher seems to have failed miserably at that, particularly if he himself introduced the topic. I'd just like to see a more balanced perspective of this incident, rather than a fourteen year-old's story, reported by Fox News. I'm just not sure we're getting the whole story.
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    With regard to posts #28 to #34,

    We only have one side of the case, with testimony which has as yet to be publicly corroborated or tested for truthfulness and accuracy. I tend to agree with tulianr; without knowing the context, the actual words spoken, and the actual manner with which the student made his comments, it would be rushing to judgement as to whether sanctions may or may not be justified. Instead of a freedom of speech issue, it may well have been a classroom management issue, particularly as the comment was allegedly made (presumably as a side comment) to a student sitting behind Dakota Ayr. As to there being a pattern of homosexual advocacy, that also is a claim that has yet to be substantiated independantly.

    I'm not sure how or why the topic of homosexuality may have arisen in a German language class, at least as far as contemporary German culture is concerned, other than possibly to contrast tolerance of homosexuality in contemporary German society with the repressive persecution meted out to homosexuals under Hitler's Third Reich. It seems an unlikely topic for inclusion in a year 9 curriculum, but I guess deviations from a central topic into tangental discussion is not an uncommon phenomenon in a classroom.

    Speaking of tangents....post #28 has little to do with the opening post on same sex marriage, but it's not something that i'm particularly "anal" about...so to speak... ; )
     
  16. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    If the parts fit, then it is fine, if they don't then they shouldn't. .
     
    oth47 likes this.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7