Do not buy gold or silver, buy this instead

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by oil pan 4, Jul 13, 2016.


  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Why is the only time people go crazy over gold is when its really high? Because people are stupid.
    Right now the toilet is flushing on Rhodium.
    Last time prices were this low was 2004.
    I have seen the spot price as high as $13,000 per ounce. The average price can double in a good year and triple in a great year so you don't even have to watch it like a hawk to make a ton of money. At this price in 10 years you can easily make your money back 5 times what you started with even if you are a complete idiot, nothing preforms like that.
    Right now its $600 to $650 an ounce.
    Over the last 26 years Rhodium has only been below $1,000 an ounce for about 4 or 5 years once adjusted for inflation.
    Last time I bought a flushed precious metal was palladium in 2008 it was at a 30 year price low. I sold it in 2015 and more than quadrupled my money. The only thing I regret was not buying more.
    Only place I know to buy it is kitco. But I don't think they are going to let it go for much less than $800 an ounce which is still a good buy.
    If the price falls lower, they are just going to raise the spot fees that way the dealers don't totally lose their asses.
    Historical Rhodium Charts - London Fix
    London Fix Historical - result
    The charts are not inflation adjusted.
    I don't care about rhodium just like I don't care for palladium. I care about making money. My plan is to eventually sell it or trade it for gold.
    Rhodium likes to build and build its price higher and higher then suddenly fall. You don't have to buy now just save your pennies and watch it.
     
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  2. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++

    @oil pan 4 "Why is the only time people go crazy over gold is when its really high? Because people are stupid."

    What the hell is Rhodium, never heard of it? (I just now Googled it). Are you saying that Kitco the only place to sell as well as purchase Rhodium?...certainly limits your options?

    Personally, I see the purchase of precious metals as an future investment much like stock and not as wealth preservation with less risk like gold even though gold is in the precious metals group. Everyone is always interested in gold because it is the de facto world standard. I looked into gold many times but always realized that I could (and did!) make much more money else where and without the hassle of storing and selling it. However, the game has recently changed - at least in my mind. For the most part I am out of the stock market but I still carry some stocks, mostly losers that should improve with time and one Blue Chip that pays a good dividend. But, the stock market is horribly crooked now, more so than ever before (my opinion), bonds and other securities are not paying, and more worrisome than either of these is the fact that there is a big change coming.

    The change is the dollar no longer being the world standard and devaluation of the dollar. This can happen either via an economic crash due to our debt level (our Achilles heel) and/or the other players of the world going to a new monetary standard backed by gold or something real. It will probably happen due to both. It will turn many into paupers overnight to include me because our dollars will devalue so badly. The only thing that can truly save one's assets is to turn them into either land or gold - gold is the safer bet unless you really have knowledge in real estate. Purchasing land is risky, much more risky than people think and many states tax even raw land. Precious metals (like Rhodium) certainly is safer than doing nothing but still is not a safe or as convertible as gold.

    I already know that you know all of this but I typed it up for others that possibly don't and to expand the conversation.

    So, in answer to your question, "Why is the only time people go crazy over gold is when its really high? Because people are stupid." I would say - timing and/or events. One could do much better than gold if the world is acting normal however that can and will change overnight - and soon. And, I think everyone now can read the future without a crystal ball and there is no longer any doubt. And, IMHO, that is why people now are looking to gold and whether it is a bit high is - well - unimportant considering what it will become.
     
    hitchcock4 likes this.
  3. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    I have found a few more places that sell it. Eaglecoin and Liberty gold and silver.
    Liberty still looks like their web site was designed in the 90s but if it reduces site operating costs who cares and they appear to be more of an industrial dealer too.
    I remember looking at rhodium back in 2008 when it was closing well above $10,000 because I remember thinking what the hell could possibly worth more than $10,000 an ounce so I looked into it a little, Then I saw how volatile the metal is and figured some day it could come down to a reasonable level.
     
  4. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    the spread between bid and ask is .. in my opinion .. insane. 100USD?
    I've a concern, if the SHTF .. who is going to buy it from you?
    we all hear the phrase: You can't eat gold. and I pretty much dismiss that because at least in my area there are a number of persons I know that will deal/barter/ wheel and deal with gold and silver products for autos, firearms, livestock / feed supplies, land and straight cash swaps.

    Rhodium on the other hand. No takers.

    @oil pan 4 are you having Kitco hold the product for you or do you take delivery of the physical?
     
  5. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Well that's the risk I take, because the pay back will be at least 1 to 4.
    I am not saying you have to sell all your gold and silver, just if you have money burning a hole in your pocket its not the best time to buy while gold and silver are at roughly 2 year 4 month highs. I have a bunch of tax free, hazard fire, hardship duty, family separation pay to do something with.
    Gold and silver will likely go higher but if you are not buying to sell then there is no point in buying now. If you are going to buy it to hold on to it then its best to buy it during the low points when no one cares about or is talking about gold or silver.
    I am going to sell all my 1oz gold, most if not all my silver and 22lr to buy rhodium at $770 to $800 an ounce and hold on to it till it gets to anywhere between $3,000 to $8,000 per ounce. I am only buying it to sell it later to get more gold (1oz, 50gm and 100gm bars) and silver (by the truck load) ammo, guns, NFA items, upgrades; the stuff I really want. That's what I did with the palladium price crash in 2008. Palladium spot price was down to $150 an ounce but no one was selling it for less than $220. Sold it later for over $800 per ounce.
    All my 16 and 17 year old 22lr I paid around $150 for it, I will try to get upwards of $700 for it all now.
    Only regret is that I didn't buy more.
    If I would have bought gold in 2008 it would have only doubled in value at its highest point and only been worth 30% more today than what it was worth in 2008. In 2008 each ounce of palladium I bought for around $220 a few years later in 2015 it was worth 3/4 of an ounce of gold. So that means I have gold that I really only had to pay about $300 an ounce to get.
    For example, lest say in 2008 I had $2,200. If I would have bought gold I would have 2 ounces and maybe a small 5 or 10 gram bar only about 67 to 72 grams of gold total. If I would have spent that $2,200 on 10 ounces of palladium in 2008 I would have been able to buy a least 7 ounces of gold in 2015. So 2 ounces of gold or 7 ounces of gold, whats the better deal?
    When I sell the rhodium what I will be looking for is gold and/or silver to be low and rhodium to be high. Or be looking for rhodium to just be freakishly high. Rhodium tends to go up in price slowly then drop suddenly, gold like to shoot up quickly and fall slowly. So it shouldn't be too difficult to find a good time to cross over from one to the other.

    I don't have them hold it for me. I think buying gold and silver and have them hold on to it is stupid. Then at that point all you have is a "gold/silver note" which is the entire root of the money system problem.

    Also I have never bought from kitco.

    Hope the next price crash is platinum, its never really had a bad price crash. Plus I have never owned any platinum.
     
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++

    So, you hold your own Rhodium also? Looking at Rhodium historically, it is almost like they only mine so much or , more likely, since there are only a few places in the world that mine it maybe political, acts of nature/God, or geo-political events affect its mining. I do follow your logic and think it is sound. But, I am not trying to build wealth but protect what I got - so gold. However, having said that should things sort out after the election, if we are not being torn apart by April/May, then even though I have never invested in precious metals before I will look into purchasing Rhodium.
     
  7. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Heck yeah I am going to hold onto it my self. I don't have any rhodium yet.
    The only places that really mine rhodium are in south Africa and Russia.
    The thing that effects rhodium price is supply, its one of the top 3 rarest elements from those semi stabile regions of the world and 80% of the demand is automotive catalytic converters.
    So in theory, when the economy is doing good, lots of vehicles being produced, spurred by acceptably cheap oil then the big 3 automotive catalytic converter metals (Rh, Pd, Pt) will be in high demand, so if a lot of vehicles are being sold the economy is doing good gold should be cheap.
     
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Rhodium is down to $585 today and the retail price for the bars still hasn't moved. Industrial "rhodium sponge" price follows the market price better, it was at $735. The rhodium sponge should sell back to the major dealers just as good as the bars, but I like the bars. The only thing that will drive the price down now is continually lower closing price and competition between the dealers.
    If you are thinking about getting some rhodium don't buy the fractional bars, the over spot price is extreme, unless you just want 1 or 2 for you collection. If you want to get more than an ounce, don't buy anything smaller than an ounce.
     
  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Rhodium is down another $10 today.
    Liberty is still sitting at $775/toz, eagle lowered their price $5 down to $820/toz and kitco went from $800 or $810 down to $770/toz.
    I'm in no hurry. I am just going to wait it out and see how low it can go.
    Based on inflation adjusted price, last time rhodium was this cheap was feb of 2004.
    (a dollar in 2004 is only worth about 71 cents now)
     
  10. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Yeah, I'm not going to be buying Rhodium.
    Market makers too thin for my likes. Ditto for the premiums above spot.
    Sure there is an upside potential for huge profits, but when bid it 575/ozt, it has to go up 40% to just break even .. nah I'm out.

    I'll stick with 90% US coinage or 80% Canadian. Especially when it's able to be purchased closer to melt.
     
    BTPost likes this.
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Silver prices are still kind of high, better off holding on to your money for now.
    Unless you plan on off loading it when the price goes up.
     
  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I am stocking up on lead, copper, brass, silver, steel, aluminum, wood, certain plastics, and other malleable materials .
    I know nd can work these materials and make and repair things necessary for life .
    Platinum and other expensive precious metals I suppose are important if you are protecting vast sums of money ,but I don't have any of that. I cant even imagine much of a market for those metals in a post apocalyptic event. I suppose that if I were an electronics manufacturer those metals might mean more to me .
     
    oldawg and Gator 45/70 like this.
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    That's the risk you take when you want to make your money back 3 to 5 times in several years.
    If I were buying stocks then I would have absolutely nothing to show for it if society went under.
     
  14. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Dollar cost averaging helps.
    As for offloading it, I don't see PMs as a means to make money so much as a hedge against uncertainty.
    Sure money can be made buying the dips and selling the peaks .. but I've got other more pressing things to do .. like keep the garden growing, canning, mending the fence, patching the roof on the barn, chopping and splitting firewood preparing for winter (and maybe SHTF).

    If one has all their preps in place for a multi year stint, then playing the PMs may be for you. But if you don't have your basics sewn up. Then playing the PMs market swings is a fools' game (a'la the bugs life movie)
     
  15. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    Already played it and won, just didn't win big enough.
    With rhodium the price only changes once or twice a day. If you have internet access just check the price a few times a week until things start getting interesting. Like I said, it usually builds price kind of slowly.
    No need to do anything else.
     
  16. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I wish you luck in the endeavor and you are able to make out like a bandit.
    I just can't see myself giving away so much in premiums over spot and knowing that "Past performance is no indication of future gains".

    I'm not one for NOT taking risks for future gains. Ergo, my long term, "I'm going to make out like a bandit" play is BitCoin.

    I see both of these as risky investments.

    Each individual will have to make their own determination on how much they are willing to put at risk.
     
  17. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I will continue to buy land, Call me Old Fashion, I will have a place to stay come Hell or High water.
     
    techsar, ghrit and VisuTrac like this.
  18. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Nothing wrong with land. It is multi use. Grow stuff to eat on it, live on it, scarce (not making it any more), physical (not gonna disappear/get lost if a solar flare hits), divisible. Sounds like it's a currency ;) It's a good prep!
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+

    House and cars are paid off for me.
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  20. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    That's right! Picked up another acre and a quarter the other day, Just have to hit the court house and register it in my name. Plans for tomorrow!
     
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