Do we actually own much of anything anymore?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by OldDude49, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Farmers turn to tractor hacking to fight corporate gouging

    this article points to something that has been growing for a time now... your right to actually OWN things is slowly going somewhere else it seems... ? ? ?

    you no longer own much if anything with software... haven't for a long time...

    home? ya right miss payin ur taxes...

    car? Older ones maybe

    while there are still things we actually own... some of the forfeiture laws say... NOPE they take it n ya need an attorney to get some of it back?

    anyways here's the article...

    Reports that American farmers are turning to foreign hackers just so they are able to work on equipment sold to them by John Deere shine light on a new problem in the era of software-controlled durable goods.

    In a bygone era, it wouldn’t be uncommon to find a grease-covered farmer working his tractor over to avoid costly downtime on the farm, sometimes even employing jerry-rig solutions meant to hold just long enough to get through the growing season.

    But as tractors, like everything else, become more technologically advanced, companies like John Deere are installing locks that make it impossible for certain maintenance to be performed without the help of a costly technician.

    According to a report out from Motherboard, John Deere required farmers to sign a user agreement in October which essentially makes it impossible for farmers to repair or modify machinery containing the company’s software.

    Worse yet, if a farmer loses a crop because of equipment downtimes waiting on a repair technician or the inability to afford the costly dealership repair, the contract bars the farmers’ rights to sue for “”crop loss, lost profits, loss of goodwill, loss of use of equipment … arising from the performance or non-performance of any aspect of the software.”

    “You want to replace a transmission and you take it to an independent mechanic—he can put in the new transmission but the tractor can’t drive out of the shop,” one farmer and right to repair advocate told Motherboard. “Deere charges $230, plus $130 an hour for a technician to drive out and plug a connector into their USB port to authorize the part.”

    In an effort to fight back, many farmers are seeking out hackers, usually located across the globe, who can provide pirated versions of the Deere software to enable homespun repairs.

    “There’s software out there a guy can get his hands on if he looks for it,” A Nebraskan farmer and repair mechanic told Vice. “I’m not a big business or anything, but let’s say you’ve got a guy here who has a tractor and something goes wrong with it—the nearest dealership is 40 miles away, but you’ve got me or a diesel shop a mile away. The only way we can fix things is illegally, which is what’s holding back free enterprise more than anything and hampers a farmer’s ability to get stuff done, too.”

    The right to repair problem, however, isn’t relegated just to tractors. All manner of companies are increasingly using Digital Rights Management and End User License Agreements to effectively strip ownership rights from their customers.

    Sure, you may physically possess your car, tractor, smartphone, television or home automation devices, but companies are increasingly reserving the right to prevent you from fixing some of these products on your own or modifying them for alternate uses. In more extreme cases, companies could even render software-enabled devices totally useless per the terms of user agreements.

    We touched on this a little last year, when customers of one home automation company found their expensive devices would be remotely disabled for good. Just like that…

    As I wrote in It’s getting harder to tell whether you actually own your stuff:

    Most of us own cell phones, computers and tablets, all of which could become subject to similar manufacturer shutdowns. But that’s only the tip of the iceberg.

    Newer cars are becoming little more than engines wedged between blocks of software. If you’ve tried to work on anything new recently, you know that an aptitude for computer programming is becoming as important in the garage as a good set of wrenches.

    Editor’s Note: For preppers, being able to fix broken equipment in a pinch is vital. Imagine having a useless tractor sitting in the barn while you rely on back-breaking planting methods in a long-term grid down situation. It’s also important to learn about seed varieties that haven’t been manipulated by agribusiness giants to prevent replanting if you’re working to put together a long-term survival stockpile. Check out “How to Survive the Collapse of Civilization” to learn more about these topics that could help you cope with a questionable tomorrow as well as practical tips that will help you become more self-sufficient and financially stable today.

    Farmers turn to tractor hacking to fight corporate gouging - Personal Liberty®

    Tully Mars, Oltymer and Yard Dart like this.
  2. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    John deere is probably the worst. At proprietary software lockup.
    GM was starting to go down this path too but pulled back when they saw no one but the euro car makers were going this direction. And their sales were being hurt because of it.

    My newest vehicle was made in 1989 and it's getting changed over to a carb in the next year or 2. I'm not playing this game so long as I can help it.

    I remember seeing a post or to asking something to the effect of "would computer or programming skills be of use post teotwawki" they were largely dismissed. Maybe something to rethink.

    I don't know would you rather have some stuff mechanized or every thing done by hand?
    The absence of mechanization would likely bring back slavery. Which I know the Democrats would love because of how they like to repeat history but I would rather not go down that path.
    Altoidfishfins and Sgt Nambu like this.
  3. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    John Deere will pay in the long run when sales bottom out.
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The right to own the property as a possession/chattel is not quite the same thing as the right to operate the property...outside of the terms and conditions of the end user contract when the property was bought or leased from the vendor.

    Let the buyer beware (Caveat Emptor) that they may not actually buying what they thought they were buying ;)
  5. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I've been under the impression that J.D. has been sucking mud for several years?
    Love my Kubota BTW.
  6. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    proprietary software And proprietary info are my daily !!
    Sales lost are HUGE , due to folks & repair places are kicking the maker to the curb .

    Same as my fridge & freezer , washer etc all have been put out on the curb so I have new / rebuilt Click & Clunk systems than only fail with a seal or mechanical bug . Not a 500.00$ timer board that is time expired OR can't handle a voltage curve .

    Next is a good watch on why so much young folks are seeing cancer ( No cell phone like hand held , was car phone in the 70's-80s )
    I see this cell as not a good thing for many .

    Gator 45/70 and oldawg like this.
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Well, there is a market opportunity for someone right there to produce and sell tractors that can be worked on.
  8. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Kubota , as we have a few .
    Tully Mars and Gator 45/70 like this.
  9. aardbewoner

    aardbewoner judge a human on how he act,not on look and talk.

    You forgetting one point .GOV,s make up demands like max emission ,and to comply, computer control is a must.
    That is not a bad thing,(except if emp wreck it)Only the lock in of soft and hardware is.Lie two is to save energy yeah sure thats why we are forced to have all things wireless,lol that uses no power.Best is to buy workable/repairable things.Best is not from china, as quality is mostly poor.
  10. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    No expert on tractors but as I understand it, John Deere utilizes proprietary accessory hookups such that you can only use their accessories (backhoes, FELs, augers). Having a bit of experience in the mining industry, FEL = Front End Loader, common jargon there. Maybe it's the same in tractor speak.

    I need to be a little better educated on the subject because a tractor purchase will be in my future as off grid / remote living plans develop. I've already pretty much ruled out John Deere.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  11. Tempstar

    Tempstar Old and crochety Site Supporter+

    I checked with a buddy who is the mechanic at a golf course after seeing this post. Yep, new motors on the mower decks have to be software initialized. New alternator will not output power until the software tells it to. They have 50% Kubota now and are buying more as JD leases run out, because they simply can't afford to not be able to do their own repairs.
    Tully Mars and Gator 45/70 like this.
  12. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Tully Mars and Gator 45/70 like this.
  13. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    I have a small John Deere 2210 that the kill switch quit working.Bear in mind this is just a overgrown lawn tractor not a big tractor in any way. John Deere wanted over $200.00 for the part. We found a new one on the internet for less than $30.00 including shipping,something is wrong somewhere. My father bought a new 1951 Farmall Super H we still have it and it runs,same block,same crank and rods,way less than $2000.00 brand new. Over 65 years old,try that with a tractor of today.
    Tully Mars, Dont, Gator 45/70 and 3 others like this.
  14. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    The new Ford 165HCC (75 HP) unit has got an electronic control & dash system , Software up the hitch , IM sure it is proprietary im sure . I can be loading on two round bails and notice that the weight is not showing up on the cluster, I use to drop the load but now I just rest the load & shut off the tractor , let it sit 30 sec & refire it up , load is read in the minus after the bail rounds have been dropped in the feeders . I get mph/kph back , weights & PTO . It's been worked on so many times by the ford guys , i just work around it .(not my tractor , or the JD i drive also ) I own & work on my Kubota's .
    Tully Mars and Gator 45/70 like this.
  15. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    The natural progression of automobiles was to add gauges to alert drivers to what was going on with their car, but the idiots stopped paying attention to them, so the next natural progression was to do away with the gauges and replace them with idiot lights because the idiots would not pay any attention to the gauges.

    The next natural progression after that was to add gauges with the idiot lights so now the driver had redundant warnings, yet they still paid no attention. The next natural progression was to create display screens that had written messages along with pictographs of the issue and these could change colors from white to red with warnings to stop and tow the vehicle and these were soon no longer looked at.

    So what is the next step? Autonomous vehicles because the people are too stupid to be allowed to drive their own cars.

    My God what has society come to? Darwin would never believe it if he were alive today.
    Uber's Self-Driving Volvo XC90 SUV Crashes In Arizona |

    SO who is going to claim this fault ?
    Or this :

    ? Sloth
    Connected Car App: Vehicle Diagnostics | Hum+ By Verizon!

    Hum ??
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    Yard Dart and oldawg like this.
  16. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    1948 model. Runs on gas or kerosene. Was actually made to start on gas then switch to kero. If you look close you can see the two filler caps for the fuel tanks. The only software this one needs comes from the upholstery shop;)
    These little tractors are about the best you can get for large gardening/small farming. I have the original breaking plow, cultivators, disc, planter and belly mower. Restoring these old Farmalls is a hobby that my uncle and I are into when we ain't building guns. So far we have a Cub,3 Super A's, a Super AV and a 140. Also have a Super A motor that was made from the factory as a power plant to drive things like a sawmill. We have ours set up to drive the grist mill we use to crack corn for feeding the chickens, deer and wild turkeys out back.
    Yard Dart, oldawg, ghrit and 2 others like this.
  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Back in the 1970s and 1980s deere sold a lot of portable generators to the militaty.
    Now it's all kubotas since the late 1990s or early 2000s.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    oldman11 likes this.
survivalmonkey SSL seal warrant canary