Do we really need the Dept of Education?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Quigley_Sharps, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Found this and thought it might be a good discussion .
  2. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    20 U.S.C. § 1400 : US Code - Section 1400

    Ask a parent of a child with 'learning' disabilities' if they like Federal mandates, I think you will find the answer yes.

    Prior to the passing of the Act I listed in the title, it was rare that a school district would 'waste' resources on these children. Even if it was Hollywood, I point to the start of Forrest Gump as exposition on this attitude.

    Passed in 1965, the IDEA Act (and as later amended) forces schools to establish educational opportunites to assitist these folks in becoming as self-sufficient as possible.

    Much of what the DoE does do is odious, but this (little bit) I find at least worthy.

  3. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    There are two sides to every story... the junior college experience seems to work well especially the votech programs (welding, electronics, masonary, carpentary hivac, etc) ... but there are some issues that i see that are not being addressed... a student can enroll and get student loans, then dropout and default leaving us with additional debt... if these students/institutions would get paid after the end of the semester then the default rates would go down in many cases... ( many students get the loans buy a car and quit school... never pay for trhe car...)
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    It's a case of abusing the many for the benefit of the few. That said, if the assistance can be restricted to those that need it, I'm on board. The rest of the "programs" will be little missed if scrapped. I note that there is an awful lot of different things being blamed on "learning disability" these days, and fully expect that more will be legislated into existence.
  5. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    What we really don't need is an ARMED Dept. of Education.
  6. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    There are over 17,000 employees @ the DoE that do not teach children anything. @ 60k/yr avg salary that's over $1Billion wasted... Rather, stolen and then wasted. How many of them are making a 6 figure salary? Your local taxes should be used to educate your children. The federal education system is nothing more than statist indoctrination paid for by money stolen from the serf population.

    Anybody unable to guess my answer to the question??? [freedom]

  7. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I could not agree more with this. Coupled with the fact the amount of federal and state money that is pumped into the school districts for all of the groups that are classified with a factor of more than "1". "1" being the factor of a normal everyday student. It is a system that has abused classifications of students.
  8. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    A little more on that, for you (Oregon's numbers):

    Every student is initially counted as one student for every day they are enrolled in a public school district. Districts track their enrollment on a daily basis and report the “Average Daily Membership” (ADM) monthly based upon these counts. For each ADM in this current school year, districts will receive approximately $5,900.

    After counting each student as a whole or 1.0, the state then sets criteria that students must meet to qualify for additional funding. Students who qualify and are enrolled in an English [as a] Second Language (ESL) program are weighted an additional 0.5. This means the district receives $1.50 for every $1.00 that it would receive if they were not enrolled in this program or approximately $8,850. It is expected the additional $2,950 is spent providing the ESL program needs for each of these students.

    Similarly, students who qualify for Special Education services and have a documented Individual Education Plan (IEP) are weighted an additional 1.0 or receive twice the funding as students not on IEPs. Students enrolled in Pregnant/Parenting Programs are also weighted an additional 1.0. Those students living in poverty (using a threshold well below qualifying for reduced or even free school lunches) and those students in foster care are weighted an additional 0.25. Students who qualify for weighting in more than one area are counted in all applicable areas.

    It is noteworthy that the funding for Special Education students is limited to a maximum of 11% of the total district student population. If a district has more than this proportion of Special Education students enrolled, they are legally obligated to provide the needed services, but do not receive funding to support these services.
  9. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

  10. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Not only do we not need it, but there is absolutely NO Constitutional authority for it to even exist......not that lack of it slows the feds up one lick.
  11. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Being a state Department of Education employee, I can tell you that we DO a LOT more than people realise. We manage the Transportation system that provides your kid's buses.
    We support the computerized application that allows your school to send your kid's (or an adult student's) transcript from one institution to another (a VERY complex sustem - I am on that team).
    We manage the reporting of your kid's testing, to make sure they meet the standards of other states - otherwise if you move your kid is back to square one in school.
    We make sure the teachers meet standards and are safe - the people who have contact with your kids most of the day.
    Yeah..... we do a lot of GOOD. Is there chaff andwaste - yes, there is. EVERY job has it.

    Now, as to the Federal Education system, I'd sure like to have far less of their mandates and regulations making my job harder......
    "One Child Left Behind" is a total failure wasting a huge amount of money and time, and you wouldn't believe the trouble the "Migrant Student" system has caused us.
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    There is local and federal.

    Is this federal octopus who after 52 years is right back where they started? After trillions of dollars?

    You said you work in the educational sector; just what does this monster the federal dept of education do that is worth what we are spending?

  13. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    You mean like the ones that are unfunded, much less funded. I do not know how many there might be on the fed or state level but a lot of these mandates are not helping the cost of education. Government seems to have no problem making requirements that are sucking the taxpayer dry. It's not the school districts employees fault this is happening.
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    True, a neighbor's wife teaches and in her classroom, there is only one electrical outlet.
  15. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    My brother was one of those kids, got labeled and no decent work for the rest of his life he is 51. The schools love it for the money but the kids end up on the Sh*t end of the stick.
  16. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Operative word there being STATE.....which is why the 9th and 10th amendments to the Constitution gave ALL power/responsibilities not specifically delegated to the Feds over to the States, or the People.

    State departments of education are fine, if that particular State wants one.....but there is no place for a Federal dept of Ed, along with a whole host of other departments.

    Ran into a guy at the county seat today while paying my annual property rent fee that was running for Congress.

    OK man....what are you gonna do up there ?

    He starts in on how we need vocational education, blah, blah, blah....

    I said "whoa". First, have you ever taught voc ed ? ( I did for 7 years at the high school's a waste of time for the most part, but I digress )

    No...he was a school planner.....never taught.

    Then I asked: What section of the Constitution authorizes Congress to spend one dime on education ?

    He thought a minute, and came back with the General Welfare section of the preamble.....

    Yeah....with that justification, why even bother HAVING States.....the Feds could justify spending on virtually anything...which I told him.....and WHY we're 15.4 trillion in actual debt with another 70-100 trillion in promises we can't keep.

    Yeah....they all have a plan to go to DC and spend more than the last guy.....
  17. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    With justification from the General Welfare section I motion that we euthanize those who overspend and/or insert unrelated crap into bills covering matters of actual importance.
    TnAndy and Quigley_Sharps like this.
  18. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Seems to be the old disconnect here again. I am indeed very much AGAINST the Federal Department of Education. As with most of these Federal departments, they are a total waste, and exercise far too much control over the states. There are many I would abolish. It's a fact of life we State employees have to contend with every day. The counties/districts have it a little easier as WE run interference for them from the Feds.
    Tracy likes this.
  19. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Dept. of education is just two more losses of freedom, on by laws and one by more taxes to enforce the stupit laws. Federal studient loans do nothing but create intentured servents, while making a small leches in the education system rich.

    In my opinion elementary schooling should be affordiable an paid for by the Parents of the children. Secondary education should be of some value and not fianced
  20. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Perhaps if my taxes were lower I could send my youngones to a school that allows "PRAYER". and says the Pledger of Allegence. Just saying
    Tracy likes this.
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