DOD Bans Sale Of Surplus Brass

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by RouteClearance, Mar 13, 2009.


  1. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    I do not have the time to go into detail, but the DOD has effectivly banned the sale of all .50 cal and below once fired surplus brass without being completly destroyed. This came from DRMS.mil
     
  2. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    Is this a resource savings idea?
    Or
    To keep it out of the hands of the people?

    Please choose your tin foil now.seesaw
     
  3. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    It is a safety issue. Originally, the OFB was sold to people that scrapped it out, but with the shooting market, it is now being used to reload. The problem is that the majority of it is machine gun brass and has been stretched as such. People reload it, it goes boom with a case head seperation and they try to sue and it gets ugly from there.
    There are ways around this though. Person A buys the brass. He then sells it to scrap yard with paperwork to prove it. Then the scrap yard sells it to Person B who then sells it as reloadable brass, Person B being a friend of Person A.
    This has already been happening for years with the other DRMO stuff. I used to frequent DRMO auctions and watched as Law Enforcement, who has priority over the public, would come in and tag all the good stuff. They would sign for it, costing them nothing, bring a big truck in, then miraculously, this stuff would all end up at the local surplus dealer. The surplus dealer was paying the cops pennies on the dollar and the cop shop was making free money for a little work.
     
  4. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Yikes!
     
  5. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    About time for the million man "we have had it with this BS" march!!!


    http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html

    Sunday, March 15, 2009

    DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers


    AND SO IT BEGINS...
    We all wondered when it was going to start.

    When the new administration would make their move against us as gun owners. Oh, everyone got upset about HR45--I'll bet I got over 100 e-mails warning me about this draconian gun registration bill that had been introduced in Congress.

    I was really glad to see Tom Gresham, host of "Gun Talk Radio," an editor, writer, television host on "Self-Defense TV," and one of the foremost gun spokespersons, come out and tell everyone to stop worrying about legislation so absolutely over-the-top--it would never get out of committee.

    Tom said save your energy for when we really need it--don't expend it trying to warn everyone in your e-mail list about legislation that would go nowhere.

    Now, Tom just interviewed me, and Larry Haynie, owner of Georgia Arms (www.georgia-arms.com), on Gun Talk (www.guntalk.com)--and Tom agrees, now is the time to "...unleash the hounds..." by which he means start e-mailing and writing your senators and congressmen.

    Now it has come clear...now we know what they intend to do.

    It is an end-run around Congress. They don't need to try to ban guns--they don't need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit "assault" weapon sales.

    Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless.

    Think we jest?

    Here are copies of two letters sent to Georgia Arms just Thursday evening--effectively cancelling a contract he had to purchase 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, 7.62mm, and .50 caliber:


    Dear Valued Customer:

    Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

    Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

    Thank you,

    DOD Surplus
    15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
    Scottsdale, AZ 85254



    March 12, 2009

    Larry Haynie
    Georgia Arms
    PO Box 238
    Villa Rica, GA 30180

    Re: Event 7084-6200:

    Dear Larry Haynie,

    Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.

    If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable.

    Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009.

    Sincerely,

    Government Liquidation.



    Got that? From now on, remanufacturers of military brass will not be able to buy surplus brass from DOD--actually from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. At least, not in any form recognizable as once-fired brass ammunition.

    Now all brass ammunition will have to be shredded, and sold as scrap.

    Georgia Arms, who brought this to our attention, is the 5th largest ammunition manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition in the U.S.

    "We're right up there behind Hornady," Larry Haynie told me.

    He also told me with the cancellation of his contract to purchase this brass, and the ending of his ability to purchase any more expended military ammunition, he will have to severely curtail his operation--laying off approximately half his 60-person work force.

    Haynie further pointed out this move is a stupendous waste of taxpayer money--reducing the worth of the brass some 80%--from casings, to shredded bulk brass.

    He stated most of this will now go to foundries where it will be melted down, cast in shippable forms, and likely be sold to China, one of the largest purchasers of U.S. metals on the open market.

    Haynie was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, which he sold on the civilian market to resellers, and to law enforcement agencies across the country.

    He will start tomorrow sending cancellations of orders for .223 to law enforcement agencies all over the country.

    You can expect this to affect every bullet you purchase in the future--with no reloaded ammunition available, the already strained new manufacturers will be unable to meet demand. They are already turning out everything they can build for the military market. The civilian market is stressed to the point even reloading components have become hard to find.

    Now, with this hit, ammunition prices will go through the roof in the next year.

    Your quality piece, sitting in your gun rack, will become a very expensive wood and steel, or plastic and steel club.

    What can you do?

    Google "contact members of Congress" or simply type in www.congress.org.
    When you reach that site, type in your zip code--it will give you all your representatives, senators, and their web pages.

    Or you can find the addresses and e-mails of your own senators and congressmen by going to www.senate.gov and www.house.gov. Both pages have locator aids at the top of the page.



    Here is a letter I just sent to Representative Bill Cassidy, Congressman from the 6th District of Louisiana, and Senator David Vitter of Louisiana. I will be sending it to every member of our congressional delegation. Feel free to copy it and paste in your own e-mail, sending it to your legislators.

    We have to stop this now!


    The Honorable Bill Cassidy
    Member of Congress from Louisiana

    Dear Congressman Cassidy:

    It has come to my attention that the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all expended military brass (fired cases) will now be shredded and sold for scrap material, rather than resold by Government Liquidators LLC to the civilian market for remanufacture.

    You may not be aware of it, but there is a severe shortage of ammunition available for sale to the public across the country, causing problems for shooters, hunters, and reloaders everywhere.

    Now, apparently the Obama administration, realizing they cannot move against private firearms ownership since the landmark decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Washington D.C./Heller case, has made their move in another way.

    By cutting off the resale of expended military ammunition to remanufacturers, they have put a stranglehold on the nation's ammunition supply.

    Further, they have reduced the return to the government on expended brass by 80%. What was sold for remanufacturer at a fair return to the government, will now cost the taxpayers untold sums of money as the cost of scrap brass is far below the price per pound for expended military ammunition.

    In addition, the use of remanufactured ammunition is a huge asset to law enforcement agencies across the country who buy millions of rounds of reloaded ammunition a year from these manufacturers for practice rounds.

    With this market gone, law enforcement will no longer be able to purchase inexpensive reloaded ammunition, and with the continuing combat status of military forces across the Middle East, original manufacturers of new ammunition are turning out everything they can make to the government, thus exacerbating the shortage of new ammunition in both the civilian and law enforcement market.

    Lastly, in these harsh economic times, does it not strike you as cold and calculating that the Obama administration has no compunction against ruining an industry that employs thousands of American citizens in the remanufacturing of sporting and military ammunition. One major resupplier, Georgia Arms, the fifth largest manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition has informed me he will have to quickly lay off half his 60-person workforce, as he has had to cancel contracts with dozens of police agencies who had contracted with him to supply them with remanufactured .223 ammunition.

    Georgia Arms has been practically put out of business by this directive that all expended military brass must be shredded. His current contracts have been canceled, and he is notifying his customers across the country he can no longer supply their ammunition needs.

    Please look into this immediately. This move by the Obama administration is nothing but a back-door strike against firearms ownership in this country--if shooters can't buy ammunition, the guns are little better than steel clubs--and this is obviously the intent.

    Thank you for your time and efforts in this serious attack against the Second Amendment rights of the American citizenry.

    Sincerely,

    Gordon Hutchinson

    Author "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab"

    Firearms Columnist for Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Mississippi Sportsman magazines.
     
  6. TenGrit

    TenGrit Monkey++

    This has been in the works for a while. This isn't something invented by the current administration, although many would like to think that. I would love to blame it on them, but I first heard discussion on this 3 years ago (22 years Active Duty mil).

    I have a question: While we all rant and rail about how we have become a "culture of entitlement", what entitles Georgia Arms to buy surplus brass as cartridge cases? They built a business based on government surplus and now that their supply is going away they cry "foul!" Their ammo has blown up 6 rifles that I personally know of, and they then tried to claim "weapons malfunctions" when buyers of their ammo attempted to be compensated.

    The government sells surplus brass as scrap metal well below the market price. This will not change with the new policy of shredding fired cartridge cases. So the value of the brass does not change one bit. The value of the brass only changes to the person buying it in order to reload it and sell it as remanufactured ammo. This actually saves the buyer an additional step when separating the impurities so the brass can be re-extruded into brass tubing. Major manufacturers can actually buy shredded brass and make new casings, saving them money. This actually prevents companies, like GA, from using brass fired from an M249 that could potentially fail in someone's rifle.

    Downside is that that Larry Haynie can't use cheap brass in his "Canned Heat". Wait...there's a downside to that? You can still get bulk 5.56 for $50 cheaper than what Mr. Haynie is selling that junk for (www.outdoormarksman.com).

    I like "less expensive" ammo as much as the next guy but I don't like it blowing up someone's gun and I don't like a company's refusal to take responsibility for their actions. I also don't like when they try to use the internet to build sympathy so they can continue with their questionable customer service practices.

    There is still a lot of once fired brass out there, but now purchasers have to buy it as "once fired brass" and not "scrap". I am sorry that this will affect the individuals who buy this for their own consumption, but I'm not sorry for companies that buy "scap" and resell it to the little guy just trying to get by.
     
  7. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    I found the following on another forum site, so there is hope.....
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Update:

    From a member of another forum:

    "I called the NRA-ILA (INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION). I spoke with a guy named Eric and he put me on hold for a few minutes till he could get the latest info on this subject.

    After returning to the phone he gave me a bunch of info. The NRA is definitely aware of the problem and have heard from some reloaded ammo companies and individuals. Eric rattled off all the DOD agencies invlolved and apparently this may have been "somewhat of a mistake" The ranking DOD agency has heard our concerns and condsiders them VALID!!

    Right now, the word is from DOD to the NRA that they hope to have a WAIVER put into place within a two or three weeks which will CORRECT this situation and return once fired brass, .50 caliber and below to the sales policies previously used!!!

    Eric said it might be helpful to call our Congressmen just in case and make them aware of the impact on the DOD budget, police training, and inidividual rights.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I've been a satisfied user of Georgia Arms re-manufactured ammo for many years - 9mm Luger, .45ACP and .223Rem. Never had a problem. Never heard of anyone locally who has had any problem either.
     
  8. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Consider mine called ,and thanks for the info .
     
  9. Ready

    Ready or getting there...

    Thats just the start. I got an email today with this attached.http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm]http://www.freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm[/url]
    Several states goin with the ammo numbering. I;ts a dirty shame.
     
  10. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    From GunIssues fourm.
    Well, boys and girls, your efforts have once more been rewarded. A short time ago, I got word from a usually reliable source (who doesn't wish to be identified) that "due to efforts by the NRA, and a huge public outcry, the DOD brass mutilation order is hereby rescinded." Apparently, we made so much noise on Capitol Hill, they figured discretion was the better part of valor. I, for one, am gonna keep stockpiling brass, since I trust those b_________ about as far as I can throw them, and in my diminished capacity, that's not very damn far.
    We still have the problem of the holdup at Customs of imported arms and ammo, which is ongoing. We'll have to keep working on that, but it wouldn't hurt to mention that in your letters, as well.


    Dear MSSA Friends,
    I just received a phone call from the office of U.S. Senator Tester of Montana to inform me that at 5:15 (EST) today a letter cosigned by Senator Tester (D-MT) and Senator Baucus (D-MT) was faxed to the Department of Defense asking DoD to reverse its new policy requiring destruction of fired military cartridge brass. At 5:30, I am told, Tester's office received a fax back from DoD saying that the brass destruction policy IS reversed.
    Others report to me that they are already seeing evidence of this on the Websites of entities that liquidate surplus DoD commodities.
    Our thanks go out to Senator Tester and Senator Baucus, and their staff, for getting on this problem promptly and making the reversal happen
    Staff for Tester and Baucus promise they will get me the documentation for this reversal tomorrow morning. I'll forward that when I get it.
    Best wishes,
    Gary Marbut, president
    Montana Shooting Sports Association
    http://www.mtssa.org
    author, Gun Laws of Montana
    http://www.mtpublish.com

     
  11. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I can't think of how many times nearly everyone has said "What's the point?" when a passionate few try to stir the pot to make a difference; it does my heart good to see it work.
     
  12. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    STATEMENT FROM NRA CHIEF LOBBYIST CHRIS W. COX
    Military Surplus Cartridge Case Issue Resolved


    Wednesday, March 18, 2009


    Yesterday morning, the Department of Defense informed NRA-ILA that fired military small arms cartridge cases are once again eligible for sale, following a temporary suspension in such sales instituted last week. NRA-ILA began discussions with DoD shortly after the suspension took effect, and we were assured from the beginning that efforts were underway to resolve the issue favorably.

    Yesterday afternoon, DoD additionally confirmed the lifting of the suspension to pro-Second Amendment United States Senators Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Jon Tester (D-Mont.), who sent the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) a joint letter vigorously opposing the suspension, on the grounds that it had "an impact on small businesses who sell reloaded ammunition utilizing these fired casings, and upon individual gun owners who purchase spent military brass at considerable cost savings for their personal use."

    Everyone who would have been impacted by the suspension, had it become permanent, owes thanks to Senator Baucus for his leadership on this issue, as well as to Sen. Tester and U.S. Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.), who also weighed in strongly on behalf of gun owners and the suppliers from whom they obtain ammunition reloaded with surplus military brass.

    In announcing that the suspension has been lifted, DoD also made clear that no cartridge cases that, in the absence of the suspension, would have been sold for reloading purposes were destroyed while the suspension was in effect. Such cases were instead protected by DoD during the suspension, and are again eligible for sale. With ammunition currently in short supply, that was welcome news, to be sure.
    DLA also put to rest various theories and rumors that were circulated on the internet, concerning the reason for the suspension. As DLA explained to Senators Baucus and Tester, and to NRA-ILA, DoD officials responsible for the demilitarization of military property temporarily halted the release of the cartridge cases last week, pending review of a policy change issued last year by the Office of the Secretary of Defense, which, in the interest of national security, halted the sale of items within a broad category of government property including, but not limited to, surplus small arms cartridge cases.

    To make cartridge cases eligible for sale once again, DoD demilitarization officials verified that the cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for use within the United States, and then executed the recategorization. Whereas during the brief suspension, fired cartridge cases would have been releaseable only if the purchaser crushed or smelted them, now the cases may be sold as before, intact and reloadable.

    DoD also assured NRA-ILA that companies previously authorized to purchase cartridge cases under Trade Security Controls need no further vetting at this time, and are eligible to resume purchasing cases under the policy adopted yesterday.

    In sum, a problem that could have had serious repercussions for the remanufactured ammunition industry and the countless gun owners who support it, appears to have been resolved quickly.
    For more information:

    http://www.nraila.<WBR>org/media/<WBR>PDFs/DLA.<WBR>MilitaryBrass.<WBR>pdf
    http://www.nraila.<WBR>org/media/<WBR>PDFs/DLA_<WBR>mcunningham.<WBR>pdf
     
  13. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Georgia Arms Victory‏
    <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <colgroup> </colgroup><colgroup class="ReadMsgHeaderCol2"> </colgroup><tbody><tr> <td class="ReadMsgHeaderCol1">From:</td> <td> <img id="P___917105172" webimdisplaystyle="inline" style="display: none;"> Larry (gaarms@bellsouth.net) </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ReadMsgHeaderCol1">Sent:</td> <td>Wed 3/18/09 11:46 AM</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ReadMsgHeaderCol1">To: </td> <td>Larry (gaarms@bellsouth.net)</td> </tr></tbody></table>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"> <title>NOTICE</title> <style> </style> <style> .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;} </style>
    NOTICE!!!

    A hardy congratulation is due to our loyal customers, our good friends, and our fellow shooting enthusiasts through out this great nation! Due to the diligent and overwhelming effort of many thousands of you, calling, writing, and emailing our elected officials, DOD Surplus, LLC, has rescinded its prior directive that ALL small arms spent casings be mutilated rather than recycled. This was a huge victory for common sense and we would like to thank each and every person who made an effort and played a role in correcting this mistake. We at Georgia Arms are proud of everyone who took the time and had the courage to stand up for our rights. We believe, that by your outpouring of anger and dismay, you not only extended our liberty and freedoms but also took a stand for economic common sense in a time when we know our government should be trying to reduce costs at all levels rather than throwing money away for some politically correct reason or the other. Again, our hat is off to everyone who helped and thanks to God as well. We will roll up our sleeves and go back to work; we have 223’s and 308’s to build! We will start shipping backorders today. (Below is a copy of the email we received from DOD on 3/17/09 @ 4:30pm)
    GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!

    (This was pertaining to an outstanding bid on a lot of brass that we won prior to the mutilation order. DOD sent us a bill for the brass after we had refused it due to the mutilation requirements. DOD on Monday sent us a bill for the brass and when we responded that we had already refused it due to the mutilation clause, we received this reply via email.)
    I am sorry you hadn’t been informed –

    Word came down that all shells 50 caliber or smaller CAN still be purchased without the mutilation requirement as long as kept in the US.

    (As it was in limbo, I did not sent your EUC to Battle Creek until today, also why I have not contacted you for payment until today.)

    Thanks!

    Arana K. Wolin
    Document Verification Supervisor
    Government Liquidation, LLC
    DOD Surplus, LLC
    15051 N Kierland Blvd. #300
    Scottsdale, AZ 85254
     
  14. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    from a dark corner of the auditorium, " Hey whadda bout 7.62x39???"
     
  15. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

  16. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Sounds like four fat ones to me -- [peep]
     
  17. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    AMMO CAN BONANZA!!!!!> Last I saw the bid was at $4200. for 1830 ammo cans. lol Wonder what I could do with all of them? LMAO
    http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2232073
    LOT APPROX (1120) 7. 62 MM AMMO CAN, APPROX 10Â X 3. 5 X 6. 75 EACH STACKED ON 7 PLT S AND 2 BOX S FOR LIDS AND APPROX (630) SAW AMMO BOX S, E CAN, APPROX 12. 75 X 7. 25 X 8. 75 EACH STACKED ON 9 PLT S AND APPROX (80) 40 MM AMMO BOX S, H CAN, APPROX 18. 50 X 8. 25 X 14. 50 EACH STACKED ON 4 PLT S.
     
  18. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

  19. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    I have bought some stuff from GOV liquidations and everything worked out very well. One thing that I would like to do is setup a buying group for this area so that larger lots could be bought then split.
    I am going to look into the ammo cans next.

    Ammo cans mutilation not required.
     
  20. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    Where you at? I'd be interested in some of that action.

    This is hilarious. 123 pairs of ECW bunny boots. Wasn't someone asking about those recently? $22350 paid by uncle sam for 123 pairs. Comes to $181 a pair. Current bid Goose egg. 5 days out.
     
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