Drawing the line

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by QuietOne, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. QuietOne

    QuietOne Monkey++

    Thinking about the firearms confiscation thread. I always figured I'd just pretend to be a good little sheep and... what? So what could anyone do with a "hidden" firearm if he's always acting like an obedient sheep? Isn't this just an excuse; a way of pretending that I'm doing something when I'm really chickening out? I've read Solzhenitsyn. I know things won't get better if nothing is done. So what do you do? What can you plan in advance? And where do you draw the line?
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    It is hidden until you know confiscation is going on in your area. Then you have to decide to go or stay, and do what needs done. The only reason for hide out is security until and for afterward. If you have advance notice, other dynamics (like bug out or other means of avoiding the jbts) has to be planned for. There are more branchings, of course, but only you can assess your own options. For example, you turn over the non cached weapons and wind up being "transported." When/if you get released as a non threat to TPTB, you'll be able to rearm and head for the hills. Maybe.
  3. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I'm watching the fringes for indictions one way or the other...
  4. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    After seeing what happened in the UK and their weapons ban, life went on as usual except for the fact that the Hunting and Shooting communities had lost their right to own certain firearms. They were financially compensated for the weapons that they handed in, which by no means compensated them for the loss of their sport or liberty.

    Actively resist until it becomes law, then comply and repeal the law, or become an outlaw, and face the legal consequences, when you get caught.

  5. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    repeal the law ...Good luck with that one.Tony;you know its not about hunting and target shooting. I could get alot of enjoyment target shooting .25" groups with a precision air rifle..:)
    but your statement is the only legal position to take here.And none of us are criminals at heart, just watching to not repeat the mistakes of history. And some cling to what are rapidly becoming "antiquated" views of what "freedom and liberty" means in the greatest "free-est" country in the world.
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    "I've read Solzhenitsyn"[beat]
    Now I'm afraid to read him,just add to my uncertainties... taser1taser1:shock:[coffee2][coffee2]
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    There is no, "one place to stick the enema nozzle" in America and clean out the filth. If you make a "stand";Some where with a weapon or a sandwhich board sign, you are only affecting a small circle of individuals not effecting change of the "system".

    WWGD? what would Ghandi do??? He took a country back without force of arms .I'm not a history major butI think The howitzer of the people is a "general strike". Nowhere do I find local people even mildly concerned with liberty issues hip deep on the net.
  8. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    Sorry Tango3, it's the only position.

    I'll explain, if and when you get caught out, you will be incarcerated, which will mean you are no longer in the position to help your loved one's and family in a SHTF scenario.

    The banning of smoking should have been fought with more vigour, if they can introduce a law like that, and get away with it, they can do almost anything at any time, they just need to press the right button's.

    The second amendment is antiquated, comparable with some of the Sharia laws that the Koran bashers cling on to.

    Our foes are intelligent and are wheedling away at our rights 24/7 trying to make themselves rich and produce a world as they want it, in which they have total control over us all and every aspect of our live's.

    I served in Her Majesty's Armed forces for over ten years. Today I would refuse point blank to wear the uniform and go to war for the UK., because I would be selling myself for something/one that I didn't believe in, doing their bidding, and they just aren't worth it.

    I have been totally honest in my answer, hell even I don't like what I have written, but it's the way it is, and I can't change it. I know that repealing laws doesn't work, but it's the only way forward.

    Sorry if you think I'm being a uber [troll][troll][troll].

  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I drew the line a while back and made choices that I will not allow regulation to determine my ability to defend my home. What is in my home is my business and not that of .gov anywhere. I will abide by laws of my community, for example, if they decide that I may not go down-town with a open-carry weapon, I'll leave it at home or conceal it. If I decide to carry a weapon, it will comply with community standards unless it is an emergency. Any type of home invasion is an emergency and what goes off in their face inside my property is another matter altogether.
  10. kansasrebel

    kansasrebel Monkey++

    If you're not going to stand tall and keep what's yours then you will be no better than the sheeple you criticize for other things. You are not going to live forever. I myself would like to live as long as possible. But I would rather die on my feet fighting for something I believe in (Freedom) as to die on my knees serving the scumbags.
    Moatengator likes this.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Green if you are outside my property.
    Orange if you are inside the property line.
    Red if you are inside the drip line without an invitation.

    All bets are off in case of something strange going on, no matter where.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  12. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    No apology necessary Toemag.
  13. CBMS

    CBMS Looking for a safe place

    The line is when my beliefs become criminal. I need to be free, otherwise I will "go postal"
    +1 to ghrit
  14. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Sam Mathid
    Oct 15, 2008

    What is beyond the collapse?

    The construction of the collapse was loosely as thus:

    1. Governments inflated their currencies.
    2. Malinvestment resulted
    3. To cope with the problems of malinvestment, governments inflated their currencies more.
    4. Huge malinvestments resulted.
    5. To cope with the problems of huge malinvestments governments inflated their currencies hugely.
    6. Currencies utterly collapsed (still playing out).

    The feeble construction known as the world economy has been held together with the glue of lies and pathetic conceits such as:

    1. Pieces of paper printed by governments, and not backed by anything of value, could successfully be used instead of real money.
    2. Wealth creation could be separated from production.
    3. The more control government took of the economy, the stronger the economy would be.
    4. The disintegration of the moral, spiritual and intellectual fabric of the western world had nothing to do with governments control of the economies.

    I have had readers make the point that if the whole edifice was built only on an illusion of wealth creation, then how come there was so much prosperity for the last few decades? The answer to that is horribly simple. We expropriated and wasted not only such real wealth (production) as there has been in the present times, but we wasted the accumulated wealth of all the preceding generations, and finally (and most disgusting of all) we then went into vast debt and consumed the wealth of future generations.

    The whole lot, every last nickel, has either been doled out in the gutter of political corruption, or flushed down Wall Street's slimy drain; all abetted by a malign, mumbo-jumbo nonsense called Keynesian economics. Nowhere is there reference to prior criminality and stupidity on such a grand scale. There is no historical precedent.

    For three generations the public have been lied to and lulled into a false sense of security by the media, by the education system and by governments.

    Now, more than ever, there is a desperate need for the truth. The restoration of hope for the future can only begin with the truth. A foundation of truth is the bedrock of any decent society, which is why the enemies of freedom seek so desperately to suppress it, and why sane people value the virtue of truth so highly.

    The truth is that the current system has become corrupted beyond possibility of repair, and needs to be allowed to collapse. It will do so anyway, whether we 'allow' it or not. It must collapse, so that something more attuned to the genuine needs of people can be created. Destruction must often precede creation... slums have to be razed before fine living quarters can be constructed.

    When a system is corrupt it will attract only corrupt people and only the corrupt will flourish. We have provided history with a wonderful example of that. Look at the legislators who sit in not only the American Congress, but in the UK and Australian parliaments, and in governments all across the western world. Only an utterly corrupt system could elevate and reward such second-rate people.

    As of this morning I see that the DOW rose almost 1000 points overnight in the US. This on the promise of politicians taking firm action. Looking to politicians to effect a solution for this situation is as futile as poking around in a parrot's entrails in an attempt to divine Saturday's winner at Randwick. Bush claims that it is an effort to preserve the free market. The free market needs no help, it needs less hindrance. It is government 'help' that has killed the economy. As Reagan once said: "the nine most scary words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' It's actually eleven words, but what's a 20% error with any government figure.

    Look at the criminals who infest Wall Street, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury. How foolish and shifty they look as they sit blinking in front of the television cameras struggling to provide coherent answers to simple questions; and yes, on one level it is laughable, but that is our money and wealth that has been destroyed. That is the material present and future of our families that has been stolen.

    Our education system is run by people whose job is to ensure that children attain adulthood without gaining any dangerous ideas about personal integrity or individual responsibility. Our media no longer even pretends to publish the news, they are merely organs of propaganda for the government, and for those vast corporations allied to government. It is time to be done with all our institutions. No part of what we have is worth saving. The corruption has penetrated and permeated from the very top to the very bottom. Society has been rotted down to the last point of resistance... the core level of the family and individual. The institutions have become a part of the problem, not the solution. The solutions can now only be at the level of the family and the individual.

    We need a new system which allows people (who, despite all inducements to be otherwise, are mostly honest, hard working and decent) to produce and prosper. A system that allows everyone the rewards of their efforts. A system that keeps government locked away, not only by Constitutionally binding laws (we tried that), but by harsh and prescribed penalties for the flouting of those laws.

    We need a system that keeps government completely out of the economy. The first great breakthrough in the establishment of boundaries between government and people was the separation of the State from Religion, the second will be the separation of the State from Money and the Economy.

    There is no place for government in monetary or financial dealings between free people. No matter the occasional foibles and failings of individuals, people will always be as saints compared to the systemized criminality that infests our corridors of power. When government pokes its dirty and self-serving legislation into the economic pie, there is an immediate corruption of that pie. The pie then gradually deteriorates until eventually and inevitably the economic pie becomes so rotten that it collapses. That is the point where we now find ourselves.

    Eventually people are going to find out how it is that they have been ripped off so grossly. At that point the expression of the voice of the people will move from the sedateness of the ballot box to the get down and dirty level of the streets. What is important is that people's wrath is directed toward the right target. There are many easy yet wrong targets such as neighbours, other races, immigrants, religions etc.

    The right target is governments. The criminality and breathtaking greed of Bankers and Wall Street, that has brought the whole western world to its knees, could never have happened without the legislative complicity of government. Our western system of governments, not just the American system, are rotten to the core. Definitely the American system is more corrupt than any other, but that is only a matter of degree, not of standard.

    It is time for a revolution, but not just more of the same old mindless and horrendous violence of the 20th Century, with its pointless wars. Another century spent fighting wars to determine which is the best form of total government control of monetary and fiscal affairs would likely see the end of the human race. A pox on all of those governments. The original Constitution of the United States of America would be a good starting point, but with changes sufficient to ensure that the errors of the past could not again happen.

    It is time for the second American revolution. America is the only place with the tradition of freedom and the intellectual underpinning (not to mention the arms) to make it happen. There would be many willing and happy to come and help. There must again be a beacon for freedom in the world. The fight is not just for the future of America, but for the future of the world.

    Many in the American intelligence and military, from the top to the bottom, would renege on their allegiance to the government in an instant in the event of a revolution. They are deeply troubled by the nature of the system that they serve. Indeed, it is possible that there are very few who would fight to keep the current elitist system intact.

    Bush has already deployed the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division within mainland America. More troops are to follow. Will these troops remain reliable and true for the elites against their own countrymen? Hard to say... especially for the elites. Bush's striking down of Posse Comitatus, which disallowed the use of the US military on home soil, is a double edged sword. It is a decision and a precedent that could come back to haunt him.

    It would be easy to argue the merits of a military coup in America. The arrest of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin et al with the dissolution of Congress, followed by an announcement of immediate criminal investigations into the whole upper hierarchy of the political and financial establishment would, after the initial shock had subsided, have massive public support.

    Colin Powell sitting in the White House and presiding over a new Constitutional Convention would do a lot to reassure Americans and the rest of the world that America was serious about addressing its problems. Maybe the military are the one institution that could redeem themselves.
    The fortresses of our ruling elites around the world were almost impregnable during the complacency of the past few decades. That complacency, born of the illusion of prosperity, is about to be replaced by a public rage, born of the reality of an imposed poverty. The time for truth is now, and the truth is that it is time to bring down the fascist and socialist elites and their Keynesian economic cronies who have destroyed so much and so many.

    Is my message 'doomy'? Absolutely not, it is a message of hope and salvation. Could poverty, violence, war, hatred, sickness, moral rot and spiritual oblivion become worse in this century than it was in the last? Only if we allow a continuation of the same corrupt monetary system. We are in a vast debtor's prison and the guards are the very people who created the monetary system that ensured the financial ruin. Not only is the message hopeful, but throwing these criminal and pompous bums into jail, or out into the street, would be a lot of fun.

  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    wow,well said...
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Hang on, Someone knocking aggressively at my door.....
  17. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I didn't hear any gunfire djoo guys????Mebbe it's just girl scouts delivering mint supremes.
  18. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    :) 700 "Biilion" with a "b" ? You better get that back I ve got a rifle, a shovel, and a backyard!!!
  19. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    We were concerned about bans/confiscation 5 years ago too.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  20. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    But the fact it didn't happen before certainly doesn't mean it won't one of these times...

    IMO there's no such thing as wasted preparation.

    VisuTrac, Tracy and Moatengator like this.
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