Earthships: The Garbage Warrior

in flood zones, leave good tubes inside, use them as life preservers

 

Brokor, you ARE an excitable type.

I'm disagreeing with your *presentation*. Your sneering tone turns people off, and you wonder why... Take a bit more reasonable tone with people and maybe they'll see your point a little better.

A lot of people worked hard for their "yuppie" lifestyle. They have worked hard, educated themselves, put in long hours, and they are not stupid people. They have achieved a great deal of utility from what they have accomplished in their current 'eco-system'. Telling them what they have worked for is worthless, is clearly a non-starter. It's not worthless. It could change in the blink of an eye if the environment they have eveolved in changes, but it is very well-adapted to their current circumstances. So calling it stupid makes you look crazy.

Sneering at "yuppies" who try to learn from some of the pioneers and still connect to the grid, is ridiculous. If you're that concerned, you'd be glad that they're at least making moves towards the lifestyle you espouse. If you're really all that concerned about sheeple following the herd and the nanny state, why are you so bent on making people accept YOUR personal vision instead of finding their way like water to the sea, trickle by trickle?

If you could learn to acknowledge cost/benefit and put things in terms other people can relate too, you might find it more effective.

For example:

Point: distributed systems are more robust than large-scale point-sources of electricity. They tend to self-regulate with demand.

Counter-point: The supply may not meet huge spikes in demand. They're more expensive. Convincing people to use them and training them on installation and usage has a cost.

Point: energy-efficient homes save costs in new generating capacity, reduce large spikes in demand that can overwhelm the grid. TCO can be lowered over time.

Counter-point: Retrofitting costs a lot. Energy efficient homes can often cost more to build than conventional, and this cost is up front and immediate rather than spread over time, which makes it inaccessible to many.

Point: Changing your lifetsyle can reduce your energy costs. Living more in tune with the natural environment has benefits

Counter-point: There is a cost of convenience and time associated with such a change. There's a learning curve that doesn't always come easily. There's a social cost to living differently from other people. Some people's fancy ideas of living in tune with nature are comnplete fantasies of fuzzy, friendly disney animals, and don't have a good track reccord of being safe and practical.

If you could tone down a bit on the superior, nagging, 'holier than thou' tone of superiority, maybe you wouldn't find so much need to sneer at the "ignorant lifestyle" of others because they'd be working towards the same things you want.

If you could at least acknowledge it's not all upside- TANSTAAFL, then maybe you could convince more people. On the other hand, maybe your point isn't to convince people to change, maybe it's to convince yourself that you are smarter than 'they' are...

 

Ah, yuppies are tyrants. If you'd just said this up front I would've "gotten it" sooner.

 

Not that i think there is a right or wrong side to this, but, it seems to me that as we age, we seem to require less and less of the "acceptance" that is gained/earned by proving our success in life by possesions... We are all different in that we gauge happiness in different measures......But as long as our goal is accomplished, we are happy....that is why tent campers sneer at popups, and 5th wheelers sneer at popup campers, and etc, etc....I am now in the stage of life where size is directly related to need....but, that is me, there are people in my town that are building 3000 sq ft homes....with NO children (of course, can't afford to WITH children) Anyway, this forum is a gift to both sides of thinking....Please remember that the right to have different opinions and the right to pursue any size dwelling , is another of the "freedoms" we as Americans, enjoy....rsbhunter

 

The grid is there for anyone to buy into as they please, do i agree with the damage being done to the planet because of producing this power? Doesn't make a difference, it is an option for anyone who has the money to purchase it... Your beliefs are 100% right....TO YOU. If everyone thought as you do, and declined to waste our worlds resources and health, then there would be a problem with the few who take advantage of the grid, who are ruining it for the many.....until the degradation of our resources is to far gone to be saved, then the worlds population will believe that there is "no problem"....rsbhunter