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Europe's $1 Trillion Bailout and a New World Currency

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by survivalmonkey, May 14, 2010.

  1. survivalmonkey

    survivalmonkey Monkey+++

    When the news of Europe's unprecedented $1 trillion bailout package was announced last weekend, the storyline behind this "solution" to the sovereign debt crisis seemed rather skewed towards politicians' cries of speculators "attacking ...

  2. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Monkey+

    When will taxpayers finally say "enough!" and tell IRS agents to pound sand?
  3. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    There are only 2 ways to do this:
    1. Vote out all reps who favor big government and who don't want to audit and openly reveal all transactions in the Fed to the public.
    2. Point your gun at them, after all, they've had their gun pointed at us since the creation of the IRS.

    My feeling is that #1 will only work for a short period of time IF we could get it in place. What happens is people get complacent just like a bi-polar person gets when they take their meds and then say "Hey, I feel great, so I don't need my meds".. #2 will last longer than #1 but will eventually end up in the same place...233 years later (;))

    #1 is less violent and bloody but won't last as long because people won't be able to say "I fought for it".. kind of like how people don't assign a higher level of intrinsic value towards something when it's been given to them.

    #2 Well, people WILL be able to say "I fought for it, and I watched people die for it and you're not taking it from me because I'm not going to let it happen again (ask any Veteran about this sentiment).

    Quite frankly, the chess game plays better with #2. Recovery is quick and longer lasting, but could you imagine going through this up and down crap every 10 years (#1 option)? it would make us, perpetually, a 3rd world country. In fact, a 10 year cycle in the bubbles is already threatening to do so.
  4. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    This is about consolidation of wealth.
    They print more money and who do they give it to? Corporations and financial institutions.
    Printing debases currency which means that every loan outstanding and cash in hand is worth less.
    But you needn't worry if you're a member of the special class who are getting direct deliveries from the mint. The size of your pile will outpace any debasement.
  5. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Monkey+

    Perhaps there is a third way.

    #3 Secession.

    Tell the federal government to get out of town. We don't want your offices of FDA, EEOC, NEA, DEA, USFS, Dept. of Ag, FBI, IRS, SSA, VA, ATF, et al. You stop sending us money. In return, we stop sending you money.

    We could do it peacefully.
  6. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Ok.. but that would also lead to war.. lets say my original #2 is 2a and this is 2b.
  7. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Monkey+

    Not necessarily. It can be done peacefully.
  8. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    [stirpot]Naw... peacefully from your hacienda maybe,BUT I "garuntee" there's some old spoiled rich dudes in the circles of power with plenty of pull willing to fight you for control ofsay: Texas taxes.
    Just because you would "peacefully" not "pay your fair share" as the libs like to say.
    Doesn't mean the Rahm Emmanuels and kissingers of the world would just say "okay go about your local business and prosper "Its agame they feel they are on top of now, somebodies gotta knock them off the top of the pile. That kinda dissent is contagious and must be stomped out at the source...[winkthumb][peep]If the circus Elephant ever wakes up and tests the strength of its ankle chain, it would be free until the handlers killed it stomping about in in somebodies garden.

    Finally: nothing worth very much is ever free.

    "Freedom" is about the most valuable thing I can come up with...

    Peace :)
  9. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Can you cite an historical equivalent that was resolved "peacefully" that didn't eventually erupt in some war, no matter how small? I can't..
  10. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Monkey+

    If I could, would you agree it's possible?
  11. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Just admit you are wrong or answer the question, quit playing![stirpot]
  12. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Anything is possible. But it's very unlikely given our recent history.
  13. steppingup

    steppingup Monkey++

    The problem with the financial collapse is that it is just a symptom of peak oil and resource depletion, which in turn is just a symptom of population overshoot. Sure, there has been the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind, to the tune of some 14 trillion and counting, and the printing presses are running in overdrive, but IMO it is all planned to drastically reduce the population of the world and create a slave system with the oligarchs as the new pharaohs.
  14. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    How do you figure?
    I agree that there are problems of resource depletion and population growth, but the whole financial mess seems to be a separate issue.
    True that the world banking system is a means of control, and true that it is manipulated by a select few. But it was trashed by their greed: derivatives, Fanny/Freddie, naked short sales, Greece, etc.
    In fact, I'd contend that it is the other way around. Resource depletion is the result of abnormal economic growth spurned on by currency manipulation.

    I'm interested to hear how you see the opposite.
  15. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Monkey+

    Belgium seceded from the Netherlands in 1830. Norway seceded from Sweden in 1905. Singapore seceded from the Malaysian Federation in 1965. All were negotiated peacefully.

    In 1990 fifteen republics seceded from the Soviet Union. A Czech and a Slovak republic were created out of Czechoslovakia through secession. All peaceful.

    The Eskimos and Cree Indians of Northern Quebec peacefully negotiated more sovereignty from Canada.

    For 100 years government schools have taught Americans to worship Abraham Lincoln, the despot who suspended habeas corpus, imprisoned 30,000 people without trial, used blackmail to rig elections in the south, and started a war that killed 600,000 people, the deadliest in US history.

    The belief that secession has to be violent is what your imperial Lords in Washington want you to believe. It is not true.
  16. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    And the corollary to the Belgium secession was that it was preceded with a war. But even then , there was the 10 days campaign (no matter how small).
    Strike one..

    Norway was never really a secession since it was really a sovereign any way. But that's my personal view and I am biased since my lineage goes back to the first king of Norway. I'll give you HALF a point on this one only because the peaceful secession was a result of the absolute fact that the king was not in the monetary position to go to war. If he was, you bet your butt that he would have. So I submit a default of war would have taken place and this is the exception, no the example.

    Foul ball..

    Singapore? not so fast:
    "On 7 August 1965, Singapore seceded from the Federation and established an independent republic. From the outset, Indonesia's President Sukarno attempted by economic and military means to take over the young nation as part of Indonesia; cordial relations between the two countries were not established until after Sukarno's ouster in 1966."

    Read more: History - Malaysia - issues, area, system, power, policy History - Malaysia - issues, area, system, power, policy

    Strike 2..

    I have to go to work and I'll comment on the Soviet Union secessions later.
  17. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Ok, th Czech and Slovak Republic were not created by Secession, technically due to the fact that they both withdrew and the entity that they were both a part of was dissolved. Secession requires the originating entity to still exist. This was a dissolution of Czechoslovakia.

    Ok, moving on to the 15 republics of the USSR.. remember the August Coup ? 1991 Soviet coup d'├ętat attempt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Also, this was a dissolution, not a secession.
  18. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    In what universe????? If a state tried .gov would be sending everything they had to restore "order" and imprison the domestic terrorist responsible.

  19. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Monkey+

    The fed.gov does not have the means to imprison 15 million domestic terrorists.

    The United States Federal government is unsustainable. It will fail. The only question is when.

    Texas is a donor state. We only get back 90% of every dollar our citizens send to Washington D.C. During the next 10 years that percentage will steadily decline as fed.gov diverts more tax revenue to paying the interest on our National Debt.

    I don't believe fed.gov will dissolve in a weekend like the Soviet Union did. I believe the states will slowly establish greater and greater levels of autonomy until they are pretty much sovereign states.

    That process will be painful, but it can be done for the most part peacefully with small, constant adjustments to business and governmental structures over time.

    There will be government workers striking and welfare leeches throwing bottles, but nothing like a civil war.
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

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