Evaluation of the Department of Veterans Affairs Mental Health Services (2018) Consensus Study Repo

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HK_User, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    The "Final Report" easy to read and free as a download.
    Login | The National Academies Press

    BUT, here's the catch.
    This activity was supported by Contract/Grant No. VA77713A0009 between the National Academy of Sciences and the U.S.
    Department of Veterans Affairs. Any opinions, findings, conclusions, or recommendations expressed in this publication do not
    necessarily reflect the views of any organization or agency that provided support for the project.

    Anyway it's good to read on a night when you can't sleep.

    And good enough > accurate> that I purchased the book.


    From the Preface
    Approximately 4 million U.S. service members took part in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Shortly
    after troops started returning from their deployments, some active-duty service members and veterans
    began experiencing mental health problems. Given the stressors associated with war, it is not surprising
    that some service members developed such mental health conditions as posttraumatic stress disorder,
    depression, and substance use disorder. Subsequent epidemiologic studies conducted on military and
    veteran populations that served in the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq provided scientific evidence
    that those who fought were in fact being diagnosed with mental illnesses and experiencing mental
    health–related outcomes—in particular, suicide—at a higher rate than the general population.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  2. sarawolf

    sarawolf Monkey+++

    So awful what has happened. Son in law has terrible problems but wont seek help because he said he is done with the service. (He s ruining his marriage to our daughter) He did several tours and Chris Kyle was one of his buddies. They had him sign a paper relating that he wouldn't ever seek Vet. services and no one said a thing about it. That never should have happened. Neighbor is taking meds and going to a doc once a week. Nieces husband did 7 tours over there in the hot spots.
    Yard Dart and sec_monkey like this.
  3. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Have them contact a Veteran Service Officer in their area, preferably the DAV (Disabled American Veterans). That Paper they signed is not legal.
    The only legal document is a secrecy statement.
    But that does not limit them to service from the VA.
    Or a PM to me on this site.

    Other "tricks" was to tell vets various lies at their exit.

    Time and place of operations is secret as is the Military Group.

    Accidents or injuries, mental or physical are not controlled by a secrecy clause.
  4. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    OTOH, what ever he signed was not a product of the VA.
    From interviewing many Vets I have found that many sub branches have Documents for the Vet to sign but used mostly to limit the vet in discussing what really happened to them.
    sec_monkey likes this.
  5. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    I watched a documentary about head injuries, from concussions, ie football players, car crashes, boxers etc compared to explosive blast wave of IED that our military have suffered. There is absolutely no relation between the two. Explosive IED head trauma totally differently damage the brain. The Drs. and scientists researching this have just uncovered the tip of an iceberg. This is a whole different thing and it is huge.
    Tully Mars, sec_monkey and HK_User like this.
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Huge Deadly and easy to prove, for the most part any way. It only takes one blast and the brain is damaged in a pattern that no other occasion can duplicate
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    tacmotusn likes this.
  7. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    they ran these vets into the ground with repeated tours and little if any real breaks between...

    the constant stress... few breaks... WTF... did you expect?

    and then saw reports that some that started having difficulties were discharged as unsuitable/undesirable discharges?

    run em ragged and put em through the ringer... and then dump em... n then... add in... no help? WTF?
    Tully Mars, tacmotusn and HK_User like this.
  8. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    There is help,but not from the service.
    The VA has a number of avenues to help the Vet, but the Vet has to ask for that help.
    The VA is not part of "the Service".
    Would you like some of the forms for Vet's claims?
    First I suggest the local DAV Chapter. Not an arm of any service or the VA. A free standing volunteer group, service to the Vet at no charge.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  9. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Life member DAV
    tacmotusn and HK_User like this.
  10. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    sec_monkey and tacmotusn like this.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I saw that, it's a new discovery pertaining to late onset brain injury. There is a tenuous connection in that a concussion from a near blast is about like a sports injury BUT the blast wave propagates thru the skull and brain resulting in latent damage not showing up until later (as measured in years.)
    sec_monkey and tacmotusn like this.
  12. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    This is a Totally NEW Diagnosis, and Syndrome, not previously KNOWN, and VERIFIED.... When Studied, at the Cellular Level, it presents totally different at the Cellular Level from Concussion, and Football Brain & Boxing Injuries... Th e research is still in it’s Infancy, as they just recently found a way to see the damage. The BIG Issue that kept others from seeing the difinitve Proof, IS, You can NOT get the samples to test, from a live Patient, only from cadaver Brains... The actual damage vector is still only a Theory, as it haven’t been proven in Animal Sampling, yet... They think that they understand what the Damage vector is and how it works and happens.. What they speculate is that the Blast Pressure Wave (roughly 3000 Meters per Second) as it travels thru the Brain, drops significant energy, when it trasitions across the boundry from White Brain Matter to Gray Brain Matter, due to the difference in density, of the two forms of Bain Matter.. With Concussions and Football Brain & Boxing Injury, the impacts are much Slower, and there is NO, Pressure Wave, mostly just the Brain Bouncing around, inside the Skull, where the damage is.mostly on the surface, and Brain Bleeding... Not enough conclusive Data has been catalogged to make better conclusions as of yet, and live Data can NOT be gathered, as of yet...
    sec_monkey and ghrit like this.
  13. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Nephew went in years ago, was in Abrams in both Iraq wars, got promoted and transferred into an area in which he had no real training, got married young, multiple tours, low pay, marriage gone, alcohol problems, stress problems, went thru Fort Carson which automatically means he was sc****, discharged due to DWI , living in my brothers basement and basically wasting time until he kills himself one way or another. Doesn't really want help and isn't really open to consoling. The family is at wits end and less than pleased with the whole system. None of the standard programs seem to work as he is not into being sincerely involved in them. Not a new pattern, I have seen similar things for the last 70 years and from WW1 vets to ones that got out or were kicked out 6 months ago. VA seems to be doing a fairly good job with nursing homes, but the rest of it sucks.
    sec_monkey likes this.
  14. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    I am not sure I am wondering if all this is a end run around to privatize the VA over time or just let it die off because if Vets can get care anywhere why drive bunches of unneeded miles.
  15. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Partly right, evidence found due to deaths can now be seen with various techniques.
    In Live Humans.

    "However, validation of compartmental diffusivities remains challenging, and complementary MRI-based techniques such as alternative diffusion encodings, compartment-specific contrast agents and metabolites have been used to validate diffusion models. Finally, white matter injury and disease pose additional challenges to modeling, which are also discussed. This review aims to provide an overview of the current state of models and their validation and to stimulate further research in the field to solve the remaining open questions and converge toward consensus."

    Read it here. Design and Validation of Diffusion MRI Models of White Matter
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Sorry I left my Crystal Ball at work. Or another way, how does what you posted relate.
    None the less explain to me how you would run the VA.
  17. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I have seen countless blast injuries, many had few signs, but in the emediat after blast time there are signs if you know/trained in what to look for, and one of the very best tools we had was observe and report to the lead trauma surgeon so that there is an official medical report that can be used later on! One of the best ways to visualise the effects is seen through organ liquefaction due to blast over pressue, the brain suffers much the same way, only the damage may be more sever and or harder to detect with in the limits of technology. The pressure waves can effect different parts of the brain in ways not yet understood. Nerve damage, blood vessel damage, cell and tissue damage, the list is long! Then there is the type and energy level encountered, and the effects of the helmet all play into the damage intensity, it is believed the helmets may actually intensify the wave energy, focusing it more directly to the brain tissue. I have seen some pretty stark differences between two or more solders all in close proximity to each other, one may suffer emediat damage, while others suffer only minor, only to have major issues later on! It's a strange organ, the brain, you don't want to mess around with it, trauma input can really cause trouble not easy to diagnose or to even correlate to the initil cause of damage!
    duane and HK_User like this.
  18. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    Explanation is self explanatory it is a hospital let it function as one for veterans it would be a specialty hospital for veterans and their immediate family, I can say that there are levels of care between differing decades of service and that needs to stop where is the equality if not among veterans, that would improve things, It already has rules that if you live outside a certain mileage the black & white card is suppose to work as a insurance card but my introduction was or appeared to require a release by the VA could not accommodate the the veteran in a specific time frame, now that I would make a universal at the Veterans option not the VA. I do not categorically deny that the VA main hospital system may not be a better choice for many but that should be their choice in my opinion,

    Where I go the administration building and billing are separate and redundant the parking is nonresistant if you have a problem it takes up the remainder of your day in that aspect more consolidation and less bureaucracy spread out. I do care for the workers that could be phased out over time retiring off as long as it is transparent, a good plan thought out and with consideration for all is what I would like, we are to often drawn into an adversarial fight as the government retains power by pointing fingers away from their failures to take this on it has been back and forth better and worse it need to be final and options in stone not metered out patched and plugged by administrators chasing spot fires.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  19. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    That's a world of difference than your other post. I doubt any one could have drawn that conclusion from:

    "ochit said:

    I am not sure I am wondering if all this is a end run around to privatize the VA over time or just let it die off because if Vets can get care anywhere why drive bunches of unneeded miles."
  20. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    one of numerous considerations I had but as to Trump or any of his cabinet asking me my advice or input the answer is no and I doubt I will be getting a call, but since it has been said that, " America always does the right thing but only after they have exhausted all other possibilities" pardon me if I am skeptical of any legislation or changes as my moniker states, "the devils in the details", What we are told that is an improvement always seems to have a provision that removes it under specific rules or excludes groups of a certain action, war or time frame. looking at the posters a service member has 5 years of care from OEF & OIF after separation of service exactly what that means is not stated on the posters I have seen at the VA,

    I could write a novel on this subject alone much less the fact that many services come from charitable organizations that are not funded by the DOD or Armed services or the VA, Here in is another novel, there are other pertinent issues of service members who were or are reassigned or designated non combatants or other, then there are contractors and other personnel that operate as security....... well again the devils in the details. Of the members of Congress the senate and other branches of our governing bodies that were veterans do they use the VA system if not why, if all care, doctors and hospitals are equal that is a question unto itself, Fairness, equality and responsibility to me are just word without action there meaningless carrot on a stick incentives that people bought into and are buried nicely in a row, over 400 from just one VA hospital.

    In 3rd world countries people responsible for these types of deaths commit suicide to avoid the horror of going to prison and the treatment that they will get, here no one goes to jail and they retire with a pension. Were are the marches where are the families of the dead were is the justice, call me a cynical call me crazy but, drop a dime and call your paid representative and see the answer you get.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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