Examining Trumps strategy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by GhostX, Feb 5, 2017.


  1. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    Trump is following his playbook "The Art of the deal." He thinks that he can use those TRICKS even as President of the U.S.


    It's called "resistance fatigue", and it also ties in with how he starts his negotiations. He doesn't begin with a "fair for you fair for me" deal, he goes as outrageous as possible and lets the opposition talk it's way down a little bit to come to an agreement that still benefits him. See Mexico. Also applies to the protests which I mean, it's a bit tough to protest EVERYTHING at once when it's all coming in at once. For example, with religious contributions to political organizations, people may be like, "this is bad, but we reallly need to focus our attention on immigration and planned parenthood." It's a whole blitzkrieg of bullshit that people have to fight, and the idea is that they can't win 'em all.

    He's coming at it from the authoritarian businessman's angle, with little regard for the Constitution or design of the American political system. Anything he sees a way of doing, whether or not there are questions to its legality, he's going to pounce on.

    People need to stop looking at this like a liberal or a republican and start looking at it like an American.
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Agreed, GhostX.....Drumpf has Gish Galloped * a whole slew of EO's and policy announcements for the benefit of his pre-election constituents: (no, not the "Go Trump!" mugs, wearing "Make America Great" hats)...but the campaign funders and the lobbyists that he has made "deals" with, and who are wanting returns on their respective investments in his election.


    Gish Gallop - RationalWiki

    The strategy tends to diffuse opposition to his EOs and policy diktat, as opponents concentrate on addressing issues that are their primary concern. It's not as if his opponents can't win 'em all....it's more a case of, not having the resources to win 'em all at the same time, immediately. Limited resources will probably dictate concentrating on some issues, at the expense of others, which means that Drumpf can ram through some crappy policy without too much of a contest.

    The encouraging thing, is the separation of powers aspect of US government; with some of the judiciary showing some spine by limiting the present Executive's over reach. The Constitution matters!....but not so much to Trump it would seem.
     
  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I am unsure what part of the constitution he has violated...... [contract]
    It does sound like some folks..... have been listening to the cry baby, Chuckie Shummer, way to much!!
     
  4. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Too many people are part of the problem and not of the solution. Get behind our president and not ahead of him. Our borders should be closed until we can we can be sure of who is coming in. We don't need more people on welfare,we need jobs for the ones that are already here. One day American people will be sorry they did not keep their borders closed. Think about it people,please. I'm 74 and have seen a great country go to the dogs,get behind Trump and make this country great again. Please.
     
  5. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    evidently.....

    try the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause,

    Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia



    and due process, clause'

    Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

    First Amendment Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clauses

    First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

    First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

    First Amendment and Religion

    Further commentary on the legality of the EO.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigration-muslim-ban.html?_r=0

    White House Immigration Ban Promises Constitutional Showdown

    How opponents may challenge Trump's order in court - CNNPolitics.com

    A re-run of WW2 Nisei style internment camps for Muslims next? Internment of Japanese Americans - Wikipedia
     
  6. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey++

    Chuck Schumer was crying like a little sissy-bitch at a press conference while Nancy Pelosi sings old hippie songs on the steps of the courthouse.

    This is what they've been reduced to. They have nothing else. The "hashtag army" thinks yelling louder than everyone else matters.

    Hillary Clinton wanted to serve her country. Now she can serve dinner to Bill, and I'm not sure she has enough brain waves to handle even that. If she's so smart, then why did she lose?

    Liberals think winning comes from protesting and having hissy fits. Donald Trump thinks winning comes from persuading former Obama voters to switch sides. Draw your own conclusions as to which method is more effective.
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    "The Clause mandates that individuals in similar situations be treated equally by the law."
    The ban indeed did that.
    Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

    And further, the 14th addresses persons "within (the US) jurisdiction" which does not reach to foreign soil other than embassy grounds. They ain't here, they don't have the same rights and privileges.

    Moreover, I would not take NYT opinion as anything remotely resembling a valid legal analysis. That said, the EO was poorly drafted and evidently has been taken back for clarification if that idiot press secretary hasn't mucked it up again.
     
  8. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    I'm just 55, and I've seen my country turn in a direction that I do not like . We are not the patriotic, proud Americans I remember growing up as. I have 1 daughter, and I'm not liking what I see that she is going to have to live thru. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants, but the immigrants we used to get wanted to work towards our way of life, laws, and dreams. Now, these immigrants want to change our way of life, change our laws, and change our dreams. Some are coming here to kill us, and a good many of our politicians, and these whiny assed young punks of today are all for it. We have all these separate groups protesting for stupid reasons, when in my opinion, we all just need to come together as a country and work towards the goals to make us stronger as a country and be unified. It seems everybody is only cared about themselves anymore. It just doesn't feel right watching your country being turned into the exact opposite of what it once was, and there's nothing you can do about it. Sad times ahead it seems. Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
     
  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Forget planned parenthood.
    I say if the libetarts want to celebrate killing their unborn as some kind of right let them. Best deal ever. You don't like abortions don't get one.
    This is how I break things down:
    Does it effect me?
    If the answer is no, then why should I care.
    Here is the problem I see. Fuck with planned parenthood and all it does is rally and unify the liberal base then when they are united or pissed off and butt hurt they are more likely to push through some anti gun BS, climate change nonsense or invite the UN into run our country when they are back in control.
    This does effect me.
    So I don't see any value in going after something that I don't care about and doesn't effect me that will only serve to unite the casual, moderate and radical liberals.
    The worse part is, when you start telling them what they can and can't do, even tho abortion is disgusting you have become just like them.
     
    Legion489, Ura-Ki and Mountainman like this.
  10. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Trump ran for president on a platform calling for a series of changes in the government and is now trying to implement those changes. As for the limits on refugees I know of one of the Somalian refugees here in NH that Trump is talking about. He came here 6 years ago, was educated by the state and is now working for a refugee resettlement agency paid with taxpayer money. He is trying to bring in some other members of his family into the US that are now living in I think Kenya, in a refugee camp. They are illegals there and have no rights nor real records , there are no birth or other records on the family in Somalia as it basically doesn't exist as a country, and we are basically required to allow them to enter on their word as no records exist to validate any of their claims so it will be very difficult to "vet' them.

    If the left really believes that we "need" to support the whole world and allow an unlimited number of refugees, let them put some skin in the game. If the churches do believe in helping the poor, lets tax their properties to help pay for the immigrants, lets put a 5 % tax on the first $20,000 earnings in the US and include welfare checks, housing subsidies, social security payments, pension payments, and all other sources of income, real or in kind. Why should they expect only the rich to pay if it is indeed a national goal and a world wide right to come here. Put a social security tax on all of the present religious and governmental pension holders as those immigrants will be drawing from the system and they should pay their fair share. Most of those I see demonstrating against the changes to the system are not those who are paying for the present system or the people coming ito the system.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  11. Seepalaces

    Seepalaces Monkey++ Site Supporter+

    This is alarmist dishonesty. No, the EO's aren't unconstitutional. Obama shut down immigration from Iraq in 2011 and no one even peeped. There is no constitutional right to come to the US as an immigrant or a refugee. It is well established con law the executive has the right to decide on the way immigration is handled. Even the judge who put a stay on the EO didn't say it was unconstitutional. I hope you know more about the law in Australia Chell, lest you end up in trouble. I am not a Republican, but I find it difficult to do more than laugh at the silliness of attacking what amounts to an inconvenience in getting what is honestly the best ticket in town: a visa to the US. If refugees aren't willing to wait, let them resettle on the border of Turkey. They'll be happier and it will be better for everyone.
     
  12. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I see it as the dinner time temper tantrum strategy. Start throwing stuff at the wall and ceiling and see what sticks.
    Yes there is going to be a lot of clean up and years from now there will remain stains that forever will remind us that we let it happen.
     
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  13. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    [applaud] [applaud] [applaud]Well said.
     
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  14. Seepalaces

    Seepalaces Monkey++ Site Supporter+

  15. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    Gee I thought all those Amendments and the Constitution applied to CITIZENS of the United States, thanks for setting me right.

    Rancher
     
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    They do....the immigration bans affect the interests of US citizens. However, arguably, even certain non-US American citizens have some protections afforded by the US Constitution. The immigration/travel bans have also affected many green card holders who already have permanent resident status. The degree to which non-US citizen's are protected by the US Constitution is quite likely to be vigorously tested in the courts during the course of the Trump Administration.

    Do Non-Citizens Have Rights Under the Constitution? - Whitlock & Gray, LLC

    The Five Ways Trump’s Muslim Ban Violates the Constitution

    White House reverses course on green card holders
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  17. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Seepalaces

    Seepalaces Monkey++ Site Supporter+

    So, is your argument that it was unconstitutional when Obama did the same thing?
     
  19. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    2007
    Global Warfare: “We’re going to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran..”
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-...q-syria-lebanon-libya-somalia-sudan-iran/5166





     
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  20. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Well, I don't wish to get into this but if I did I would definitely be siding with @Seepalaces as the facts of history show clearly...

    "A re-run of WW2 Nisei style internment camps for Muslims next?"
    You are referring to President Franklin D. Roosevelt (a Democrat..btw) issuing Executive Order 9066...which ordered Japanese Americans into internment camps during World War II regardless of citizenship.

    I think no one liked it and I am not saying it was morally right but it was legal. In my old grandma's words, "We didn't know what to expect as Pearl Harbor just happened and we weren't ready...it was life or death...most didn't like it but felt it had to be done to safe guard the country." I can remember her saying these exact words as I was a history bug even as a child, especially about WW2. It was Constitutionally challenged in the courts, Korematsu v. United States
    "In a 6–3 decision, the Court sided with the government, ruling that the exclusion order was constitutional. Six of eight Roosevelt appointees sided with Roosevelt. The lone Republican appointee, Owen Roberts, dissented. The opinion, written by Supreme Court justice Hugo Black, held that the need to protect against espionage outweighed Fred Korematsu's individual rights, and the rights of Americans of Japanese descent."

    So, in a simple summary, in order to safe guard the nation they interned Americans of Japanese decent and it was found to be a legal order. Now, immigration has closed for some countries as it was done by Obama for 6 months at an earlier date, to "safe guard the nation." So, by all means let the opposition challenge it...but the precedent has already been set and ruled upon.
     
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