Fear and Sorrow, My thoughts on the present time in usa

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Benjamin A. Wood, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Fear and Sorrow (Edited Final Draft)
    As I sit here and write this, I'm thinking on everything I have seen and heard in the news this past 2 years. I think on the fact that I was born and raised in this great country. Back in my day, History and American Civics were required classes in high school, and I developed a love for both at a very early age. After listening to all the various sides, the statements, Demands, and Declarations..... I sit here in shock, with both great fear and sorrow for our country.

    When this country was created, It was created as a Republic form of Government. Under a Republic form of government, all individuals are born with certain lawful rights. They have and retain these rights by their very virtue of being. In a Republic form of Government, The Law is supreme to the wants and will of the individual. Whether that individual is "just" a Citizen, or an official elected by the body of Citizens that make up this country. This form of government is in direct opposition to all other forms of government this wondrous world has ever had in recorded history.

    In all other forms of government, the citizens are ruled by a ruling class that answers to a very small minority of people who decide what rights they will allow all other citizens to have and what Laws they will be forced to follow. The Ruling class is Supreme and the Law is second, and all others are last. In Fact, it can be argued that there really is only One other real governmental form ( and I agree with this argument). That form is known as an Oligarchy. Communism, Socialism, Fascism and Despotism are ALL just different ideological Types of this governmental form.

    So, as I sit here today, listening to the TV, I think on All I hear, I remember my studies of world civics and world history, and I have come to a sad realization . . . our great country, That has been the worlds great beacon of freedom, fairness and hope, is dying.

    And that most of it's citizens do not even realize it because they have either forgotten, or have never learned their civics or history. I listen to educated individuals constantly call America a Democracy, but we were never meant to be one. I listen as many of our leaders claim it is O.K. to ignore the very rights we are born with (and have by virtue of being) and claim it is ok to defame, ruin, and attack other individuals with no evidence or requirement that they prove their accusations, because the individual is not part of an acceptable class, color, or religion, because they are not being tried in court, or just because they don't like what the other says or believes.

    I listen as a Democratic senator from Hawaii declares that Republicans do not have and DO NOT DESERVE any rights by virtue of who they are and and what they represent. I listen as another leader declares and orders other citizens to gather and to drive out the enemy, the unwashed and unworthy from their towns, places of business, government and to tell them THEY ARE NOT WELCOME in our country. Then there is the Senator who declares on TV that the Judge is Evil, and ANYONE that supports him, or believes him is evil as well. All this based on unproven accusations, WELL before any evidence was heard, and even declaring that none is needed or deserved.

    And if the actions of our leadership isn't bad enough, all across America we have groups that attack, slander, harass, and threaten violence against other groups for the purpose of shutting them up, tearing them down, and terrorizing them to remain silent out of fear of their lives and the lives of their families. Not based on the actions of those groups, but targeted because of their skin color, religious, or political affiliations, or sex. Antifa declares they are fighting Fascism, but they attack and terrorize only those who believe in this great republic, its laws, and it's protections of the natural rights we ALL have by virtue of being. Black Lives Matter declares they are fighting injustice and the abuses of of some police officers against them because of their color. IF they actually went after individuals and evidence showed it to be true, Then maybe I would support them. But they do not. They declare All police officers guilty by virtue of being and anyone who supports our great officers to be guilty as well, then declare we should "Burn them like Bacon". There are others; far to many to list here, who attack and deny the rights and lives of others, not based on any actual wrong, truly immoral, or illegal actions of individuals..... but because they belong to some despised group, class, race, religion, or sex. Sometimes because of actual wrongs done by some individuals inside those groupings, and sometimes for imaginary or made up slights that never happened, declaring if ONE is guilty , then ALL are guilty and must be put down or stopped by any means necessary. And in Some Cases, attacked by some who only really want total unquestioned Control and Power over all things and everyone for no other reason, then the sake of that power and control. These individuals do not care about anyone or anything that does not serve there quest for total domination over all that they desire. They will do anything, Bribe, slander, destroy, Use, Or even kill, anything and anyone they see as a obstacle in their quest.

    I wish I could say this is abnormal. I wish I could say it is " just a fad" and that it will work itself out in the end. A little bump in the road for our country. But History, The great teacher of mankind, says that this is not the case.

    What is happening in America right now is not new. Throughout recorded history it happens over and over again. And the outcome is always the same . . . the death of once great nations . . . the death of freedom . . . the death and destruction of Republic forms of governments and the protected natural rights of all there citizens.

    For those who do not know history, this likely sounds like apocalyptic doom and gloom; the ranting of a crazy right winger who believes in crazy conspiracy theories. And there ARE some who will declare this to be true. And they will declare I must be stopped and silenced from spewing my poison before I spread it and destroy good people and even in some rare cases claim that any means are acceptable to do so.

    But for a little longer, I ask you to continue reading and consider the facts I put forth in a comparison of what is happening in America now, and another country from our collective world history; IF for no other reason, then to be able to say you gave me a fair hearing.

    The Country I choose is Germany. I choose it for several reasons. Germany was at one time a Republic, With a Constitution and their version of a Bill of Rights. WWII was and is, the most documented war in recent history. Due in large part to technology that brought world wide communication, travel, and television. The time period in Germany's history I chose most closely matches what is happening in America now.

    On November 9,1918 Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated the German and Prussian thrones with no agreement on a succession. This in fact made Germany a de facto republic. A national assembly was convened in Weimar, Germany and they proceeded to create the position of President of Germany in February of 1919 and write a new constitution, which was adopted on August 11, 1919. This action made Germany into what is known as a de jure republic. The time period between 1919 and 1933 in Germany, Is referred to as the Weimar Republic.

    During those 14 years, the time between 1919 - 1933. The young Republic saw much turmoil, not only due to hyperinflation, problems with the victors of WWI, and the Treaty of Versailles, but from internal conflicts of political extremism brought on by the Ideology of socialism. This ideology got its main start in Germany in 1919 with the German Workers Party, which on feb.24, 1920 transformed into what was known a the National Socialist German Workers Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei ). In English, We refer to it as the Nazi Party. The party existed from then to Oct. 10, 1945 when is was dissolved. The Fuhrer (or leader) from 1921 - 1945 was the one and only Adolf Hitler. Nazi political strategy at the beginning was Anti- big business, anti- bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric with redistribution of wealth and nationalization of big business (with profit Sharing) as a means to correct what they saw as unfair. According to the experts, (far more knowledgeable then me) Membership in the party in 1920 was around 60, in 1945 it was about 8.5 million.

    Here in America now? There are several socialist organizations such as The Democratic Socialists of America, The Young Democratic Socialists of America, The Communist Party USA, The New American Movement, and the Social Democratic Party, just to name a few. There are many more. These organizations, though they have some minor ideological differences, for the most part work together to bring about their idea's of the "perfect society". Most of these organizations got their start in/or are offshoots of the Nazi party or the communist parties of the USSR and Italy during WWI and WWII. And like there predecessors, they preach against big business, rich white men, (in Nazi Germany they were those of Jewish decent) and Capitalist. Like the socialist and communist ideologies of WWI and WWII, These present organizations have evolved their preaching to include attacking the very foundation of our governmental laws and the natural laws and rights all people have from birth, rights that our republic was built on.

    In Germany during the Weimar Republic time line, There are many differences which do not equate to present day America, and the socialist organizations we see here now; but there are many similarities that strikingly do equate. These similarities should be very carefully considered, least we repeat the past and lose all that America has stood for.

    In 1921, under the leadership of Adolf Hitler, The National Socialist German Workers Party created what was called the Sturmabteilung (SA for short), also known as the "Brownshirts". This was the parties militia arm, said to be only for protection and defense of the parties leadership and rallies. But in reality, they were used to attack and silence any and all opposition to the parties agenda. As well as instigate fighting amongst the other various political parties, as well as dividing the country along racial lines.

    In America, we have seen these very same tactics used to divide our nation. It is common practice now in America, for most, if not all of these socialist parties to send paid operatives out to rallies to instigate violence. Whether the rallies be theirs, or there oppositions. These organizations routinely hold seminars or "teach-ins" on political subversion. We watch as groups such as Antifa, Black Lives Matter, etc., go on the attack against Government and Law enforcement, as well as attempting to cause division along racial lines.

    In Germany, Adolf Hitler ordered the members of the party to become teachers to mold the young German minds, to enter politics to shape a "New Germany" and to get into and if possible take control of news media so that only their words are heard and known. It was Adolf Hitler who said the famous quote "Tell a lie enough times , and everyone will believe it! " In America, Likewise, These Socialist organizations tell their members to enter into news media, schools, collages, and politics to further the socialist agenda and bring about the new world order.
    In Germany, Past history that was not within the socialist teachings was vilified. Historical statues, artwork, and writings where destroyed and book burnings were the norm. Any teachings that were not authorized, could lead to condemnation, being fired, arrest, and yes, sometimes even death. Tolerance of other peoples opinions and beliefs was not very apparent or likely.

    In America, we see this happening more and more every day. Statues, artwork, and historical writings are vilified, destroyed, and condemned. Likewise, anyone who has a different opinion or belief, are condemned, vilified , and destroyed in the many public forums be it by Twitter, Facebook, the nightly news, and many others. We also see ample circumstantial evidence that many of these forums may very well be active participants in the vilification of other people and organizations that the Socialist Parties are against.

    As you can see, There are many similarities between Germany then, and America now. But lets be fair, there are also many differences. The Weimar Republic only lasted 14 years. Where as, the American Republic has lasted over 200. The Weimar Republic had gun control starting in 1928, and only 5 years later, under the Nazi party, it became complete gun control with full confiscation, but only for those groups the Nazi party was against. Good party members were considered for the most part all right to own guns . In America? For most of our history, Gun rights have ALWAYS been (except for the degradation of rights in the last 20 to 30 years) the natural right of all law abiding Citizens. It was considered one of the primary protected rights to preserve our freedom, from not only enemies outside the country that may invade, but also from any group inside of the country that may take power and try to take away our rights. In Fact, it can be said that This right is unique to the American Republic alone. For in no other republic in history, Have I ever been able to find this right enumerated in the founding documents of any of other republics I have studied. If they did , I have not seen or heard of them. And to further be honest and fair, America has in its past had its own share of wrongs against other groups. Slavery and the treatment of native Americans are just 2 major ones that come to mind. Of course both are not unique to America in any way. In fact, those actions were at the time the norm for virtually every other country and race in the world. (And in some places still are, In one form or another.) On the plus side, the American republic has worked long and hard for the most part to correct those atrocities. We fought a civil war to end slavery. Yes we did not do it perfectly. Mistakes were made, but corrected over time. Show me just one other country that so many fought and died for the freedoms of another country or race other then there own. You can not do it. For it has not been done in any other country, or any other form of government in history. That fact alone, is unique to the American Republic as it was created. We have went into other countries to fight and die, for the purpose of bringing or protecting freedom to the inhabitants of those countries. America has led the way to support freedom world wide. Many of our soldiers even today are stationed in many other countries and ARE fighting and dying in other lands to bring freedom to those who do not have it, or are in danger of loosing it. And are protecting our own shores and families from the fighting.

    Looking at and considering all these facts and history, It leaves me depressed about the future of our collective Republic. And it is for this reason, I entitled this writing Fear and Sorrow. And yet, perhaps there is also a glimmer of Hope, for America and its Republic has survived civil war, 2 world wars, and countless wars and actions in other countries to protect freedom, not only for our own country, but for other people world wide. I realize that growing up in this American Republic, it has left its mark deep in my soul. I can not stand by and watch the Republic fall from inaction. I, as an individual, can not allow this great country and its Republic to be destroyed by an ideology that in its very nature must destroy any and all systems that stands in its way. And . . . I know I am not alone. Every day, police officers go to work, not knowing if they will return to kiss their wife or husband, or be able to hug and tuck in there children in bed. Every day, American Soldiers fight 24/7 to protect not only America but to bring freedom and hope to those who do not have it world wide and at the same time know they may never see home and loved ones again. All the while, their loved ones wait at home terrified of seeing 2 unknown soldiers walk up their walk way with a letter in hand . . .

    No, I am NOT alone! It is my sincere hope and prayers that the American Republic can be saved from the danger that history says we are in. It is my hope this can be done without bloodshed and war, even though history says this is unlikely. America is heading for another civil war; and no one is untouched by the pain and loss civil war brings. If this comes to pass, I have no choice which side I will choose to be on.

    Perhaps, if enough Americans open their eyes, study their history, and understand the danger our country now faces, just perhaps, the horrors of war can be avoided. Every person has the Right to choose there own path, failure to do so, will have another path thrusted upon them. I have chosen my own path; the path of the Republic. I except Life, Death, and All the consequences that choice requires. It is not only who I am, But also what I am. In reality, I could not have ever made another choice. In this realization, I also realize the reason I had to write this. It wasn't so much to wake up others to the danger, though that would be a very good outcome. It was to answer for myself those questions that have lingered in my subconscious for many years. And in writing this, I have answered the most important questions in my life. There are still some questions I can not, and will never be able to answer.
    What is your Choice? Who and What?, Are you?....

    Benjamin A. Wood
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
    Tully Mars, 3M-TA3, arleigh and 4 others like this.
  2. GOG

    GOG Free American Monkey

    My oath doesn't expire and though I may be a bit old and tired, my firearms aren't.
  3. Grandpa Patch

    Grandpa Patch Monkey+

    Well written and thought provoking. (y) (y)

    I would suggest a good proof reading, spell check and thesaurus. I say this not to point the finger, but to encourage you to polish this document and see about publishing this to a much larger audience. The down side of 'publishing to a much larger audience' can be the social media platforms that so many of us avoid.

    It is true that history repeats itself and is a great teacher. It is also unfortunate that so many have not and still do not understand this basic concept. Even our military uses After Action Reports and Lesson Learned while still failing to learn from them. It has become a 'paper drill' with not actual action being taken, just process the paperwork and check it off the list.

    I not only agree with you, but would also be proud to stand with you, if that time ever comes.

    Byte, Tully Mars, Gator 45/70 and 7 others like this.
  4. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    I don't think we are heading to a civil war I think we are already there. It just has not turned hot yet and truth be told I doubt it will. Unlike the leftist the vast majority of the centrist and right will mumble and grumble and get steam rolled. The left is organized and has solid leadership and funding. The right is a total cluster F of individuals that while agreeing on principles can't seem to get past the individual and the bunker mentality. Old saying "Talk is cheap but action cost" Rings very true. The left controls the media, social media and the education system and that is where the civil war of today is being fought and lost. Say something that is not in line with liberal thinking and you are banned and effectively silenced. When the left set their sights on Alex Jones Poof went Alex Jones societal presence. Yep lots of outrage and not much else, now shadow banning on all of the major social media sites is common place and no one blinks a eye. Even when the right does manage to get together and have a protest or counter protest, they are portrayed Nationally as "White Nationalist" usually with some other demeaning adjectives and no matter how center a group is they are pushed to fringe right wing loony side. In the meantime real nutters like Ocasio-Cortez are held up as National Icons in virtually every news story and kept front and center in the news. The right grumbles and bunkers down some more. The time to stop what is happening and where we are today is long past and should have been dealt with back in 90s or even earlier. But for whatever reason we seem to believe taking back ground is better than holding ground. For decades we have negotiated and compromised with the opposing side until we simply have little to nothing left to negotiate or compromise with........... we compromised and negotiated it all away while crying about how unfair it was. Me Yeah I am just as guilty of watching, complaining about the situation and then watching some more. At this point in history we effectively have already lost because collectively we chose not to fight on any significant level. But hey we are all really good with the beer talk and everything we will do. When the reality is we will do nothing other than complain and watch some more........ and keep getting picked off one by one.
  5. Tempstar

    Tempstar Pray for BT

    People see Hitler as a monster yet fail to realize he pulled Germany from the brink of economic collapse.Yes he instituted gun control but only enemies of the state and those classified as undesirable. Somehow history has become distorted by the war years of Germany and fails to recognize the accomplishments made from 1933 until 1941. The country was made great and prosperous during this period by the governments refusal to capitulate to minor sects of the populace while building for the common good of the Germanic people. My great-grandfather lived there during these years and used to tell me how great the country became before the war. He did own several guns throughout his life there before coming to America in 1939, and enjoyed greater freedoms than those we have today in America. He became one of the truest of Americans I ever knew, always speaking of how great this country was, always having respect for whomever the President was, working hard in the produce business and providing for his family. I see many parallels in his stories and many differences. In today's America, we do capitulate to any and every little sect that demands to be heard. We have become slaves to correctness: Political, social, gender, and racial. The oft used phrase " A house divided cannot stand" has never held more true than for America present. We can learn from Germany, but not how current politically correct societal teachings would have us to. The better lesson is how we would become once again great by focusing on the majority of the American will and reinforcing the ideals that made us a great country in the beginning. No country has ever survived internal division, and neither will this one. Yes, I feel a major change will have to happen here, the form it takes is the question.
  6. Thunder5Ranch?, I agree with some of what you said, but not all. Now I am not a wordsmith like Samuel Clemmins. But I will try an explain my outlook.

    Point 1) When it comes to civil war? It is not war, till full scale shooting starts and everyone has to pick a side. Yes, we are in dire straights. And I would say in my opinion, We are in fact in a " Cold war" Between Socialism and the Republic form of government. And I believe we are in very real danger of it turning in to a full flung civil war, happening again on American soil. But we are not YET there. which leads me to ….

    Point 2) When is the " right time" to pick up arms. This is a very tough question that everyone should think about. I have always been a hard core Republic Constitutionalist. I believe in Law, Order, and all that the Constitution with it's Bill of Rights stands for and embodies. As such, I can not and will not pick up arms until there is NO other choice. For me? That is when the attacks on our constitutional rights are no longer State and local. but have been adopted at the National level. The Constitution allows contrary points of law at state and local levels. Up until now, All Abuses of constitutional rights have been at the state and local level. California, New York, ect., But as of yet, The Constitution still stands at the federal level. No Right has been eliminated or changed. Some rights and amendments have been added. But none have yet been removed. Yes there ARE abuses that happen at the federal level. And we must always point out and not tolerate those abuses ever . Yes, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is under constant attack by the socialist left. But as of YET? they have not managed to eliminate them. Not I dare say from lack of effort on their part. Back in the 90's I was member and supporter of the militia movement. And it is fair to say, I have always and still do consider myself to be a Minuteman, In body and soul. So I personally, will pick up my weapons when 1 of 4 things happens.
    1) The federal enactment of Martial Law thru out the United States (as opposed to Martial law enacted only in local areas for real emergencies) for ANY reason. Full United States enactment means the Constitution is null and void. And we wont be going back to it with out war.
    2) The Federal elimination of semi-auto guns in the hands of private Citizens. Semi Auto bans have been and always will be the first step in Total gun confiscation, which in turn is also the first step in the elimination of Republic forms of Government.
    3)Any Federal Law that is passed and enforced that endorses (making legal) the killing, and or removal of civil rights to "undesirables". Just do a little research on Nazi Germany to understand this point.
    4) the elimination or changing of ANY protected right in the Bill of Rights at the federal level. If this happens the time for talk and lawsuits is over !
    None of the above reasons have as yet happened at the Federal level. Though it can be argued that we are dangerously close on some. And personally, I think most true Americans feel the same as me. As long as there is a chance to turn things around, Without violence , Then we must try. The taking of life, must Always be the LAST option. Back in the 90's as a militia member, I swore an oath to pick up arms and fight the federal government, If any of the above 4 conditions come to pass. My views and oath have not changed since then, Nor shall they ever. But until such time as they DO come to pass. I will try every legal and moral action I can to educate and wake up America to the dangers I see.
  7. To GOG and Grampa Patch? Thank you for your kind words and support. To Tempstar? There is nothing you have written that I would, or could argue with on a historical level. Hitler did pull Germany from what seamed as sure economic collapse. And I even believe, he actually believed he was doing what had to be done for the sake of his country. At least at first. Now I do not and can not know if Hitler became mentally unhinged or just gave in to lust of power. But I think I can state in my opinion, He was a monster. He did not just try to remove what he considered threats from Germany. He tried to erase an entire racial group from existence. And I feel that one point, is sufficient for my stance. On everything else you wrote? I fully agree, with you and your great grandfather. I too am not sure what form of correction will work or be. Though I have my personal thoughts on the subject. I am not in any form a legal scholar. There are many who have far more experience and knowledge than me. I believe that education on true history and civics Needs to be pushed hard in our public schools and collages. And that those teachers who insist on teaching or attempting to change historical facts (good, bad, or ugly) need to be removed and replaced. I believe that any governmental action against Socialism need to stay within the confines of Constitutional Law. Perhaps, one solution would be to bring back and enforce the sedition laws we once had. If any citizen acts (takes out right actions) to change or undermine the constitution for the purpose of bringing about socialism to the detriment of the American Republic, They should be arrested, tried, and if found guilty, their citizenship rights should be taken away and they should be removed from the country. They have the right to their beliefs by virtue of being, They do not however have the right to change our laws and force their views on the rest of us. Nor do they have the right to citizenship. Citizenship is NOT a right, It is a privilege. I will admit in the past sedition laws were used wrongly to attack other people and groups. But the idea, If properly and Constitutionally handled. I believe it could be done and just. I am not suggesting we should throw them jail, or that they should lose citizenship for their opinions. But I DO believe it is right and just to judge their actions, And hold them accountable...….
    Just my 2 cents
  8. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    meh you are all letting the media lead you around by the nose. The war is financial and is being fought behind the scenes. The war is about who will control the world financial systems The rest is smoke and mirrors.
  9. Oltymer

    Oltymer Monkey++

    I think there is a war on right now that seeks control of your mind. The overall strategy has been carefully crafted, and it's main point of attack is through the internet. Once your mind is controlled by the enemy, then you are defeated, no matter what you do.
    Guard your thoughts, choose your words carefully, and keep the enemy outside the gates, or all is lost.
  10. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    And that is the War we are losing if not already lost. I don't know that I would call the rest smoke and mirrors but rather conditioning.
  11. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    You are bang-on target! Money is the muscles and sinews of - damn near everything! Money=Power. Control the money and you control - well - everything!

    @Tempstar "Somehow history has become distorted by the war years of Germany and fails to recognize the accomplishments made from 1933 until 1941."
    This is so true. I am avid amateur historian and the only reason I didn't major in History (minored) is because I was extremely poor as a child and I learned, the hard way, that I like to eat. My family was deeply involved in WW2, deeply. All served, every male and a few didn't come back or were maimed. So, I have always had a fascination with WW2 and started reading about it when I was 11 years old. In fact, my first ever book report in school was on 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' by William Shirer, remember that one, quite famous. Only in the last 6 months, I have come across documents and some unfashionable books that when fact checked are completely true. Most of what we have been taught to believe about WW2, to include Adolf Hitler, are complete and total lies. Shocked me to the bone but it's true. Hitler was indeed a monster but also a genius and performed an economic miracle that has never been duplicated.

    @Benjamin A. Wood A interesting essay. I enjoyed it but for goodness sakes break it down into paragraphs next time. It's hard to read in this state but I did enjoy reading it. I also have thought long and hard about the similarities of the Weimar Republic and Americans in general. As you stated, there are many similarities and many differences. I do not think we would ever see a race or creed abused such as has been done in the past. We have learned from those past mistakes. However, I could see something like a rise of a ideology or even an individual like a Hitler in America because of the remarkable similarities, especially now. Now, people are more and more frustrated with their government, overreach of the government and the corruption of the government. People want a strong and faithful leader that will support them and do what is best for them and the nation not what a party, cabal or special interest group wants. Anyway... Interesting read but please format future essays so I don't go cross-eyed. LOL!
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  12. My apologies Bandit99. I actually wrote the piece over a week ago, before I was even a member here. I wrote it in word and did in fact format it. But I copied and pasted it in, and sadly the formatting did not carry over. Guess I should have given it a little TLC after pasting, But I didn't think of it. Just edited to add some formatting...… ;)
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Ah! That explains it. No harm done. :)
    Gator 45/70 and Grandpa Patch like this.
  14. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    This one really sticks out as Slavery was a side issue at best and a real tool to cause disruption behind the confederate lines. Lincoln himself had no love for blacks and had plans to export them back to Africa and to South and Central America. His successor (Name escapes me at the moment........ Johnson?) Had even less use for blacks. The Civil war was fought over economics, control and States Rights. Slavery itself was already on its way out as new technology made the labor of slaves far more expensive than the machines that were replacing them. It was also far less expensive to hire cheap labor than to house, clothe, feed and care for a slave labor force. A lot of reference in confederate soldiers speaking of fighting for the South to be free of Industrial Northern domination, I don't recall any references for fighting to keep the slaves on the plantations. Not saying slavery was right just pointing out that the civil war was fought to end slavery is just not correct.
  15. Hmm, many of your facts are correct, to a point. But, I find your interpretation , or understanding and conclusions to be lacking. New technology did in fact make labor of slaves more costly. But you need to remember that was only really the case in the northern industrial trades and workshops. The technology of farm production had not changed much at the time. In fact the technology on the farm did not really start to change till after the civil war, and then only very slowly.

    Those who believed in slavery did not see their slaves as human. they were tools and work animals too them. And too proscribe them rights was unthinkable. That would be about the same today as saying a rifle has legal rights. So it is no surprise that confederate soldiers did not reference the slaves as their reasons for fighting. Also in war , keep in mind. You don't ever want to give the enemy any talking points to use against you. Makes it a lot harder to win and keep supporters.

    Your statement that the civil war was fought over economics, control, and states rights is also correct. Prior to the start of the civil war, and the tech advances that literally started the industrial revolution. The southern plantation owners had great political and economic power in government. After all they supplied all the cotton , flax , hemp, and leather that was required by our fledgling country. Resources that were absolutely required to survive by all. Without these resources, there would not be any clothing, shoes, bridle tack, Machine drive belts, ropes, or even water pumps (required leather for the seals). Even indoor plumbing at the time, required these resources. And just like today, Money is Power! But that economic and political power was built and hinged on the use of slaves by the plantation owners. Slavery was, I guess you can say …. The linchpin of their Economic and Political Power.

    Also just prior to the war, their was a very large Christen movement mostly in the northern states. Where slavery was not as pervasive in the day to day culture and living . That saw slaves as people. granted they did not all see them as equal. But people never the less. And a creation of God. Therefor worthy and deserving of "Human and Godly rights"

    Now lets move on to your comments about President Lincoln. Your turn of tongue, That he did not have any "love for blacks". I find to be somewhat bothersome and questionable. It is true that Lincoln had mixed feelings and uncertainty about slavery. He grew up and was raised when slavery was the norm. But he also had very strong christen beliefs and values that did not mesh with what he was taught all his life. This caused a bit of a war in himself about what is right and moral. He wrote about some of this in his diaries. It is also true that Lincoln and his advisors talked about sending the freed slaves back to the countries of origin. ( or origins of there parents and grandparents). Then, Like Now! The president had to think about subjects that are not the norm for the rest of us. He had advisors whose job it was to consider what long term effects on the nation and economy, that any major changes may bring. The freeing and granting of rights to the slaves was in fact a very big change the likes our country had not yet seen. And there where many on both sides that feared it. There was much discussion on what possible effects this could cause to our country and economy in the near and far future.( and no historical knowledge to make a prediction from anywhere in the world at the time) And what if anything could be done to " Soften the blow" as it were. A detestable discussion, to be sure. But one that as President, he had no choice but to have! It was his job.

    I will submit that all I have written and pointed out, Does in fact, prove the civil war was over slavery. If it wasn't for slavery, the southern plantations would not have had so great the political and economic power and control they had. If it was not for slavery, The south would not have feared the loss of economic and political power that led them to go to war in the first place. If it was not for slavery, all the points and facts that have been discussed here, would not have even existed....

    I Stand By My Statement!
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    The United States is not a republic, although it was at one time. This country hasn't been a Constitutional republic (arguably) since the time of Lincoln, and definitively since 1933. We have also been living in a militarized police state, and glorifying the police will not gain you anything. Only Sheriffs who are elected and Constitutionally sworn in ought to be recognized. The system we have now is a corporate oligarchy, run much like a fascist state, disguised as a Democracy. Everything is incorporated, from every Federal Branch of office, to every State and each city and municipality, even your local fire department --everything.

    This isn't just about power, it's not only about politics. What's happening is the result of the age of the corporation, and corporations are steered by profits. There's nothing in this world more profitable than war. And when it comes to the people themselves, being poisoned by big agra and polluted water and then "treated" for as long as possible by the medical industry and big pharma, taxed the entire time in every conceivable way through massive insurance corporations, what's really left? It may have been 1 in 100 who had cancer before the turn of the twentieth century, but it is closer to 1 in 3 now.

    This is about total slavery, a new world where every person is treated like cattle instead of sentient beings. This is about the fortunate few who rise to the top and prey upon the masses with greed and lust for power and wealth. And, this is about the even fewer, whose names you do not know, faces you may never see, who sit in the shadows and plot and scheme. Every rap star and millionaire athlete, every famous musician and Hollywood actor are all cattle. Let them dance and sing and be merry, let them continue to be deluded and live decadent lives to which the average citizen lives to be envious. They will continue to be divided and remain jealous and spiteful, as long as they do not look behind the curtain and find us plotting and scheming.

    The world has far too many parasites, and humans are the greatest among these. They will be brought down to manageable levels, 500,000 would be a nice foundation. The idea is to start over again, to do it right this time. No more religions, no more rights and the claim to "freedumb", where every individual can stagnate and rot and refuse to see their true potential. We must leave room for nature --we must leave room for nature. So many mistakes we have made, too many mistakes. There is no other way, the end must justify the means. There just isn't enough time to do anything less.

    Don't worry, we took the time to make your memorial.
  17. Grandpa Patch

    Grandpa Patch Monkey+

    You all are going to get my blood pressure up!

    US Debt to China: How Much It Is, Reasons Why and What If China Sells

    Yes, it is "smoke and mirrors," but it can also be referred to as; an end run (NFL), an illusion or distraction (Magician), Funny Money (Counterfeiter), diversionary tactics (Military). Everything can be referred to by differing names and even distracting meanings, but if we are talking about war then the term "smoke and mirrors" is referring to tactics. Strategy is a set of choices used to achieve an overall objective whereas tactics are the specific actions used when applying those strategic choices.

    The link above is one of my concerns and I believe that it is a part of the 'smoke and mirrors' as you say to a larger and more dangerous situation.

    1) We are tearing ourselves apart internally, as is happening right now in the media, schools, society, everywhere and part-n-parcel to this conversation.

    2) We spread ourselves too far globally with military and foreign aid around the world. We feed the world, while allowing legal citizenship children to go hungry or without a roof over their head.

    Somalia: I laugh every time tries to tell me about how they 'watched the invasion' on the news. "And just how do you think those camera men got there?" I always ask. Then the funny, dumbfounded looks start. "Huh, what do you mean?" is usually their question. "Think about it, if you are watching the US Marine landing on the beaches of Somalia on TV, then someone had to have already been on the beach to film it, don't you think?" is my follow up question to them. We had been there since August and flying supplies from Mombasa, Kenya into little dirt runways (if you want to call them that) in Somalia everyday. Odd that armed US Marines are needed to 'escort' Air Force C-130's full of relief supplies don't you think? The whole thing was a cluster from the start and then went so far downhill that it eventually became a Hollywood movie. Operations Provide Relief and Restore Hope

    Copied from Unified Task Force - Wikipedia - "The first Marines of UNITAF landed on the beaches of Somalia on 9 December 1992 amid a media circus. The press "seemed to know the exact time and place of the Marines' arrival" and waited on the airport runway and beaches to capture the moment."

    Afghanistan is another example of how the US trained and equipped the Afghans to defend against the USSR's aggression into their country and then the US turns around to fight that same country. Hiding and protecting Osama Bin Ladin was the tip of the humanitarian reasons that the US continues its presence there. I say let them kill them selves off. Operation Cyclone

    3) We do not and will set a border that insures legal immigration. While continuing to allow illegal immigrants access to jobs, subsidized housing, state and federal benefits and more. We continue to allow transgressions against this country and hide behind (many of you have said it 'Politically Correct') political reasons of human kindness. I say NO! If you are here legally, don't be surprised when US Border Patrol, ATF, State Police of whoever kicks down your door and drags you to a bus.

    4) Meanwhile, back in China.....they are laughing their butt's off... "The Strategy is working, next they will......"

  18. Hmm, You made a lot of statements there in your rant. But , nowhere do I see you offering up any fact to prove your statements. Absolutely nothing that can be fact checked. Though there did seem to be several hurled insults. And one can even to be led to believe the last line to be a veiled threat. I expected far more from a moderator of survivalmonkey.com. Your crazed ranting is just sad...…
    Get yourself some help man.... you really need it!
  19. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    Everything we do, or fail to do shapes tomorrow, or even the next second in time.
    In WWII had that bullet moved a few inches when Hitler was shot,but was killed, they entire dynamics of the worlds would have changed. We would not have had a huge depression recovery, technology and even the bomb would have most likely not been created. There would be no nuclear Powerplants, subs or ships. There would have been no Desert Storm, or Vietnam, Or Korean wars. There would be no smart phones or home computers at this place in time. And China would not be a world power and probably would belong to Japan. And the populations would have 10's of millions more people living in it.

    That's one man living. Each day many new humans enter this world, and others die. The effect on the future with these simple events is staggering. Hitler was a mad man, that gave us what world we have today. The children you love, the wife you married. The Dog you own, and the people we have lost can be traced back to this one mans influence.
    We can and do worry about tomorrow. But our effect is either minimal or humongous, and we will never know the difference.

    I met my wife, only by one day her Mom and Grandmother chose to go out to lunch, it was between a Mexican restaurant and a sandwich shop( where I worked). They chose the later, my wife applied for a job opening that we had just and only had it open a day.
    She applied was hired, we married had kids, and a grandchild. Moved to Oregon, I opened a business, became a lobbyist. So much more has happened, because they chose a sandwich and soup over taco's.

    You can go crazy trying to mold the future or guess its outcome. The OP posted here and all of us, read and posted here, instead of doing something else. So will we arrive too early and miss that person running that red-light, or too late based on being in this forum? Or maybe the car wont start? Are we approaching the end in this country? Maybe..But I can say with 100% certainty what is going to happen will happen, and nothing we do, or fail to do will change that outcome. All we can do, is our best to help guide our lives the best way we can. One man made a difference by living, so maybe we can too.
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Careful Ben, You are new around here, and Old @Brokor DOES have his FACTs straight, and has presented them MANY TIMES, and in MANY Posts, here on the Monkey... You just might kick him into another redundent set of Posts, on the subject... Oh well, I guess we could All use a refresher...
    Gator 45/70, GOG, Brokor and 6 others like this.
  1. Motomom34
  2. Dunerunner
  3. Ganado
  4. Ganado
  5. Dont
  6. Motomom34
  7. DKR
  8. Motomom34
  9. Yard Dart
  10. Yard Dart
  11. Yard Dart
  12. Yard Dart
  13. Dont
  14. Yard Dart
  15. Garand69
  16. Legion489
  17. Kingfish
  18. GrayGhost


    Do we have freedom of speech today?
    Thread by: GrayGhost, Jan 27, 2016, 43 replies, in forum: Freedom and Liberty
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary