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Fed attacks PM based currency.

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by fortunateson, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- Federal prosecutors on Monday tried to take a hoard of silver "Liberty Dollars" worth about $7 million that authorities say was invented by an Indiana man to compete with U.S. currency.

    Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted last month in federal court in Statesville on conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for making and selling the currency, which he promoted as inflation-proof competition for the U.S. dollar.

    Feds seek $7M in privately made 'Liberty Dollars' - Yahoo! Finance
  2. IrishMonk

    IrishMonk Monkey+

    This case really pissed me off... at first. Believe me, I'm all about ending the Federal Reserve etc etc... but in reality this case was less about tyranny, and more about fraud.

    "It was not about using gold or silver in commerce, it wasn’t about protecting government power, or even about using private money. There are all kinds of alternate currencies in circulation in the US. Ithaca Hours, Potomacs, Gift certificates, and Chuck E. Cheese tokens can all be used to barter and transact instead of legal tender coins and bills. Liberty Dollar was investigated and indicted because it could, and did, fool some people into thinking it was something that it was not."

    Bottom line is he should'nt have put "U.S.A." on the coins, or "dollar" , or "$" or "Trust in God" or any other engravings that make the coins so similar to U.S. currancy. If he would have made them completely different and unique he would'nt be in jail right now.
    So while I applaud the man for his zeal in creating a currancy other than "Fed dollars"... he made a dumb mistake that gave the Fed a foot in the door to shut him down.
    See how the Liberty Dollar and the Peace Dollar are similar ? That's a no no....
    liberty_dollar. 1921_peace_dollar.
    UGRev likes this.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I don't care who it "fooled", it was debt-free and it was a tangible asset. That's good enough for me. The FED is illegal, unconstitutional, and privately owned --if they still operate, so too should this guy. Case, point, closed.

    As for the Constitutional grounds, I see the objection; only the States can reserve the right to make their own gold and silver as per Article 1, Section 10: "No State shall...coin money," (making it the only official type I can only assume since this same term is applied to grant privilege to the United States, shown below.); "...emit bills of credit," (this is paper money.); "...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in payment of debts..." There is some controversy between the two terms "coin" and the use of "make" as is written in the Constitution. If we are to assume that the meaning is that the States cannot "coin", as in "make" or "create" their own money in gold or silver, and are only supposed to PAY their debts in gold or silver, we still have a huge problem. That isn't possible anymore, is it? You see, the wording of this part of the Constitution is severely problematic. However, regardless of the definition, old or new, we still do not have a system of weights and measures with a gold/silver standard as method to pay debt. Then, let us not forget the 10th Amendment, right? "The powers not delegated to the United States (see Federal Government) by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." -So, if it isn't clearly written (and might I also add, properly ratified) in the Constitution, then the Government DOES NOT have the right to do it...not only that, but it means the States and the people DO have any withstanding powers not delegated to the Government....so says the highest law in the land. Now we can move forward to the big one: "The Congress shall have the power to...borrow money on the credit of the United States," OUCH! "...to coin Money, regulate the value thereof, and foreign Coin, and fix the standard of Weights and Measures," - Article 1, Section 8. And so, there it is again. "Coin Money", as in "make" money or to "create" money...but does this also mean that "money" is only gold or silver? Well, no matter how you look at it, I don't see the term "coin" meaning to "print" money. The founders were well aware of the term "print", they even made their own Continentals which turned out to be a remarkably enormous bust. Go figure. One would think they learned from their lesson -and they did. However, I find it very strange that the European bankers had a hand in the wording of our most sacred documents. To me, it is obvious what was fought over. Can you see it as well, I wonder?
  4. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    It doses look very much like the liberty dollar. Maybe a more appropriate symbol on it would have been the gadsen flag serpent, and "don't tread on me." "real Money" "99.9% pure silver" "one troy ounce" or some similiar info. Maybe "Down with the FED" on the reverse.
    IrishMonk likes this.
  5. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    They have also set a precedent against bartering items, with this too.
  6. IrishMonk

    IrishMonk Monkey+

    I agree completely... If the American ppl as a whole were educated on the fact that the Fed is unconstitutional, perhaps enough of them would be outraged enough to stand up and have huge demonstrations... I mean HUGE , like what's going on in the middle east right now, then we could possibly actually 'end the Fed.' Ron Paul screams it from the highest roof tops, but it falls on the def ears of the sheeple.

    My point is just that this guy needed a diff. coin design... because as of right now, FED is king, and his cause is dead.
    Falcon15 likes this.
  7. Tferg27

    Tferg27 Monkey+

    There are merchants who create their own currencies good at their stores or a group of stores and artists who draw artisan "dollar bills" they encourage the owners to use to barter with.

    I agree I bet the problem here is that they may have otherwise looked too similar to US minted coins.
  8. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    Thanks for the photo.
    I could see how they'd build a counterfeiting case - though, how can you counterfeit an illegal currency? A topic for another thread perhaps.

    I wonder how many of those other "currencies" are based on precious metals.

    So if I made my own "barter tokens" that looked nothing like FR coinage, but
    contained .0252 ounces of silver (1 dollars worth at today's prices) and started giving them as change in my business - would the secret service take issue?
    Something tells me they'd find some grounds to make an issue out of - especially if done on a large scale.
    Something like that would indeed threaten the FR.
  9. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Not if you called them rounds or trade silver, and you live in certain states...
  10. Firestorm

    Firestorm Monkey+

    The Fed is after the SILVER just like thay took the Ron Paul SILVER COINS two years ago.
  11. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    You should read the entire post and research what you are talking about. This is the same man who was making the Ron Paul "rounds". This is a direct extension of that very raid.
    EXTRA EXTRA - READ ALL ABOUT IT! - Blast from the past:
    U.S. Raids Issuer of Ron Paul Coins - November 16, 2007 - The New York Sun
    Brokor likes this.
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