Discussion in 'Turf and Surf Hunting and Fishing' started by Quigley_Sharps, Nov 8, 2006.
That is fcked up! They need to take their hunting and fishing rights away from them for life for all of the states of this country.
Ok, Im on dial up and not real great dial up at that and cant watch vidios, so if I am thinking of something different than the topic at hand let me know and dont hold it against me to much.
I know I have seriously considered, and if had the money likely would, go to some of the game farms, 'fee hunts' or what ever the best term is for the places where the animals are raised about like cattle and could often be hand fed, where you pay to go 'hunt' the animals which consists of siting in a blind 50 yards from the feed trouph waiting for the one you want to come to the trouph then you shoot it and pay the owner for the 'hunt' and take the animal. I dont consider it hunting, but rather in some cases a reasonably inexpensive way of getting meat (especialy 'exotic' meat like buffalo or elk or some such) for not to outrageous of a price.
In fact I would consider it about the same as the way I did get the buffallo I butchered. I payed the rancher for it and he and another hand used the horses to herd several into a pen and let me pick the one I wanted, cut him from the rest and remover the others from that corral, then I shot him in the corral, they picked him up with a tractor and put him on my trailor and I brought home meat. To me thats about the same as the hunts at the game ranches and I dont see anything wrong with it but I DONT consider it hunting, just shooting your own food the same as if the 'game' was a cow in the farmers pasture.
Like I said, I wasnt able to see/hear the vidio so if those game farms are not the topic or this guy has some realy screwed up twist on it then ignore my post, I just talking about the ranchers that just raise animals normaly hunted in the wild then let people pay to come shoot them and in most of the clients minds, hunt. Since those to me is not much different from the cattle or pig farmer who sends his stock to a slaughter house or butcher shop, the game farm is just generaly a higher return with less work involved since the consumer pays a good price for the privlage of picking it up themselves.
I think the general idea of the video was to show how some "game farms" are treating the animals cruely.
One segment says that while the game farm is fairly large in size, for the actuall hunts they move the deer to a fenced in area that is very small (one video from a trial showed 3 fences in a small area) so that you have a "better" chance of getting your deer.
Another one showed a bow hunter that shot an obviously drugged deer, with the arrow bouncing off the dear (and he said "that's the largest deer I've ever shot!").
The stuff in that video made me sick!!
It is exactly t kind of stuff that anti hunters will use to further restrict hunting and hunting rifles. Nothing Sporting about it.
These guys are paying 10 to $15K to shoot a drugged deer at 20 feet with scoped rifle. Disgusting
For sure isn’t cheap meat, you cant fee hunt for less than a few thousand dollars. they need to stay out of commercializing wild game.
It spreads diseases to say the least about it.
Screw up the wild animals and what will you live on in the EOTWAWKI roots and berries?
Anything for a dollar. These who hold these hunts and those that participate in these hunts should be put into enclosed areas and treated exactly as the animals have been treated. I mean every way.
This is totally uncalled for and is beyond unsportsmanlike. People want to pay big money to have a chance at trophy game? How about we toss them into a cage with a grizzly and give them a pocket knife. That will give them the real thrill of the hunt.
Like I say, I couldnt watch the vidio but I know some ranchers have gone to raising venison, bison, elk and so on because the can slaughter them the same as they would cattle except that they get a far higher price for them. If they are being bread in the same way (not wild animals traped in it bred in captivity and fenced in with wild ones fenced out) and treated as we would expect cattle to be treated then that type of operation I dont have a problem with even if they let some idiot who thinks the fact you shot it means you are a hunter do the kill on premisis for an even higher price.
When I had checked into the hunts like that I was not considering it hunting, just a trip to the realy fresh grocery store but IIRC the lower prices I found were around $1k for a bison that would be in the 1-1.5k lbs range so would be around $1-$1.50/lbs for the meat with a skin that could be tanned and sold to recover a moderate to large portion of that. They also had bison within a couple hundred miles for this type of hunt anytime you wanted rather than across the country with a few hundred dollars for a permit. IIRC a couple of them had elk shooting for around the same price and also local even though the nearest wild elk hunting would be 2 or 3 states away.
Since I didnt see the vidio this place may well be bad but the scale I base it on would be the same (assumeing they are domesticly bread animals not trapped wild ones) as for if it was beef cattle. If they are being held in inhumane ways and or treated cruelly then that is a problem but if they graze and eat then every so often someone shows up at the feed trouph or they are herded into a pen and 1 or 2 (or the whole herd for that matter) get shot then I see it the same as cattle of pigs. The idiot that thinks that is hunting is clueless but I also dont figure takeing money (buying power and influence in many things) from an idiot is a bad thing. It would also seem to me to be a good business practice for them to have a 'guide' (aka farm hand) with a gun so that if they have an idiot that thinks thats hunting they are likely to not be the best shot around and if the animal is gut shot or some such the 'guide' can finish the job andtell the idiot that with it wounded it was going to attack and was a danger or just that since they couldnt even hit the livestock at 10 yards they were cleaning up after them.
Like I mentioned, my 'great buffalo hunt' consisted of 2 cow hands herding it into a corral and me shooting it in the head with a .270 from 20' or so. Granted they were not a fee hunting place, they used them to train cutting horses then sent them to the feed lot to fatten and slaughter but I figure even if they hype it to be more thats all the fee hunts are. You dont pay to hunt the animal you just pay to go shoot it and take it home and if the buyer figures the price is worth what they get then as long as the animals are not treated cruelly I personaly dont see a problem with it.
You have to watch the video.
For those of us who can't run Flash, what is this?
dial up here, but It looks like one I saw before where Jimmy Houston is bowhunting from a stand with drugged trophy bucks in a very small enclosure. Ranch hands walk around the outside of the enclosure to keep the game moving around the hunter.
These hunter wannabe's hurt hunting far more than the PETA crowd. They are on my worst enemy list, so to speak.
Totally ruined any positive opinion I may have had about Jimmy.
Some types of fee hunting are ok. On large spreads where the game is really undisturbed is fine. I've been on put and take pheasant/quail/chukkar hunts. I kinda look at it as grocery shopping with a shotgun and dog. The birds were released into the wild, but I knew the general area they were in. They certainly weren't drugged or anything. Kinda like fishing a stocked lake. And since there are no pheasant populations in the area, it's kinda the only option.
One scene in there is from a 'hunting' episode of I think they said, Jimmy Houston. Looks like he is in a tree stand. Below on the ground is a herd of deer, maybe about eight all told. This is a mix of does and bucks. While watching you see the deer moving along casually until they get spooked by either human herders or Jimmy's own movements. So they raise the flag and try to run away. They choose a direction and take off. (I'm not good with yardage so someone can correct me.) It seems that when the deer have gone maybe fifty yards at most they come to a complete stop because there are tall fences that even a deer can't leap over. This stops them from escaping and when they see the fence they stop, lower flags and start acting casual again until they get spooked again.
The closest visual that I can give you other than this one is the old phrase, 'Shooting fish in a barrel.' It is just that enclosed and there is no sport to it at all. Here's another idea. Picture a prison yard during the hour the convicts have outside and then picture the prison guards being able to take shots at the convict of their choosing. That is basically how it looks.
It is not bad enough that these animals are treated this way. It is worse when you have a 'celebrity' condoning and participating in such a hunt. It may be good that you can't see it. You may be sparing yourself some grief. Take everything you learned on how to be a good sportsman and then toss it out a window. Add in the overcommercialized hunts for the lazy SOBs that are too good to go to the woods and actually track and trail a target then you see what is going wrong with this thing.
When I took hunters ed they showed us a clip of what could possibly happen if hunting got a bad name. The scene was that you called ahead in advance to get a booking date for your annual 'shot'. You paid a lot of money to be able to shoot some wild game and were only allowed by law to 'hunt' once a year. When you arrived, they issued you a rifle and one round. You were escorted by 'spotters' the whole way. Upon seeing an animal, you took careful aim, shot your one shot and if you hit it, you got your animal and went home. If you didn't, well there's always next year.
I thought at the time that this was a farfetched idea of someone that just wanted to push the importance of sportsman conduct though how it related to the scenario was lost on me. Now I see this type of 'hunt' and see that it isn't too far away. Just gives me this funny feeling inside. Oh yeah, here it is....
I don't view this as hunting. It even begs a bigger overall hunting question.
In Michigan, one is not allowed to dump a pile of bait (apples, corn, sugar beets, etc) in a single spot for the deer to come in and much. You can create food plots and hunt in an apple orchard. A few years back I was bow hunting on our property in the apple orchard. My stand was 16 yards from the tree that dropped the best apples towards the end of october. 6 deer in one week later, I hung up the bow. Did I hunt or did I just kill? What was the difference between my natural baiting technique that some would call "hunting" and other call, "killing"?
I have never shot a deer with a rifle because none of the shots have seemed challenging. 165 yards across an open field with an M1A dialed in at 200 yards? Is that hunting? or is taking a deer at 16 yards from a tree more "sporting"?
Clydes honest opinion: if your hunt solely for the food it puts on your table, then bait or do whatever you have to do to feed your family. Just be honest with yourself and call it what it is. Its killing and butchering so that you will live. If you hunt because you love to be in the woods and nature and a by product of your love of the outdoors is some meat, then you are a hunter...just don't put out a big pile of food and say you were hunting.
I fed a family of 4 who didn't have money to buy meat with all that deer meat. That is why I killed them. It didn't feel like hunting since it was tananmount to baiting. I won't lie to myself. But I won't feel bad either since I look at it as a way to provide for someone in need.
ya me too we have been on hunts where we had to hike in carrying everything on our backs to stay and car camp hunts witch are more traditional in michigan but every time we had to hunt ie : go look for deer to search for them thus the word hunt the anti hunters will use this against us .
this is sad no respect for these guys at all
I am a hunter safety instructor here in WI. And I am going to try to use this video for our next class.
I always wondered how these big game hunts on TV or video got these great animals, now I know. In the last 20 years or so in my opinion hunting has become more of a compitition than a sport. Hunters are more worried about spread and points than they are about meat for the table.
This video makes me sick...and if I was a PETA type....it would make me a more fervent anti-hunting activist.
That was awful. I have no problem with high fences, especially on big tracts of land. That is how owners keep animals out and keep their buck to doe ratio proper for their feed and managment purposes, but 3 to 6 acre pens for hunting? That is insane. Drugging deer? Those people should be drugged and made to live inside those 3 acre pens. That makes me want to throw up.
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