Fiery talk..

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    white supremacist("whack job"?)
    Hal Turner has described a plan to violently over throw the fed gov by selective asassination in his blog, and has declared an ultimatum for the return of bonuses and perks paid for by taxpayer bailouts of dec26th.I won't paste the text but its here: this has also been picked up by Dennigers' market ticker:
    part of market ticker:"
    I don't like this one bit, it is way beyond "polite discourse" (and IMHO quite possibly into a realm that one should not cross) but it is entirely predictable, and unfortunately, is unlikely to be an isolated incident.
    Because an increasing number of people no longer have any belief that the government exists to prosecute crimes and convict crooks.
    In fact, there is a rapidly-growing belief among the population that the government and its agents have turned into the felons.
    There is an uneasy "chatter" in this general vein showing up, widely dispersed among the population, but I hear it both in online and offline conversations almost as a "backhanded" comment now - much like occurred when Nixon was caught doctoring the Watergate tapes.
    The difference is that this time the people know their wallets are being robbed instead of a political party's documents ensconced in a file cabinet.
    This had better not spread into a widely and strongly-held opinion, and there is in fact only one way for the government to stop that from occurring.
    We must see indictments of the bankers and government insiders who were involved in creating this mess.
    It needs to start happening right now.
    We need a dozen Fitzgeralds' (the Federal prosecutor going after Illinois' Governor), we need them today, and they must include in their investigations referrals to grand juries and indictments aimed at the people inside these regulatory agencies where appropriate - that is, everyone who was involved in any form of fraud related to this mess.
    I don't care if they're a banker, a broker, a Treasury Secretary, an OTS or OCC official, an SEC employee or a Congressperson. Each and every one of the people involved need to be investigated, if appropriate indicted, arrested and see the Rule of Law imposed upon them, right here, right now.
    Because if this doesn't start happening very soon there is a very real risk that the meme that is now starting to take hold - that our government is in fact the felon in chief - will spread and reach critical mass within the population.
    We cannot - and must not - have that happen, for once it does the societal consequences that flow from that belief cannot be stopped.
    There is only one way to stop the progression of this belief through society and that is for the government to prove to the citizenry that it will enforce the law even when the people who have to be arrested, charged and jailed are government employees and "favored" powerful individuals who have been robbing the public for over a decade.
    We are running out of time and what I want for Christmas is for our government to show the citizens of this great nation that it is not the felon and the people who are the felons will be indicted, arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law - no matter who they are.
    If our government does not do this, and do it fast, then may God have mercy, because I am absolutely certain we will need it.
  2. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    My friend I don't see this even coming close to happpening. I believe they have passed the point of caring what "we the people" think. [peep]

  3. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    More Fiery talk

    Bill of Rights Day, 2008, Phoenix, Ariz.

    THE LIGHTER SIDE -- A Delightful Gathering (Scroll down for Darker Side) THE LIGHTER SIDE -- A Delightful Gathering (Scroll down for Darker Side)

    The Bill of Rights Day celebration in Phoenix, held this year at the
    Wrigley Mansion, showed the day's growing popularity since events began
    here in 2003. This reflected growth nationally since 1997, when Aaron
    Zelman and Richard Stevens worked together to reinvigorate recognition of
    this most auspicious day.

    More than 250 people -- the largest crowd so far -- packed the banquet
    hall and took part in the reading, food and drink, oratory by Patrick Henry
    (ably portrayed by Dr. Lance Hurley), and most important, a Town Hall
    discussion of the 217-year-old Bill's health and welfare.

    The reading was led by people from the community, and joined by those

    Preamble and the 1st Amendment: Author Alan Korwin
    2nd Amendment: KTAR Meteorologist Ed Phillips
    3rd Amendment: Americans for Prosperity Arizona Chapter Tom Jenney
    4th Amendment: Federalist Society and Institute for Justice Jennifer
    5th Amendment: Attorney Richard Stevens
    6th Amendment: Justice of the Peace Gerald Williams
    7th Amendment: Ronald Reagan and Ron Paul Aide Joe Cobb
    8th Amendment: ACLU Arizona Executive Director Alessandra Soler Meetze
    9th Amendment: Republican Jewish Coalition Arizona President Amy Laff
    10th Amendment: Arizona Council on Economic Education President and 4th
    Great Granddaughter of Patrick Henry, Elizabeth Volard

    THE DARK SIDE -- Redress of Serious Grievances
    THE DARK SIDE -- Redress of Serious Grievances

    It turned out that examining the abuses and usurpations of our government
    -- which the "declaratory and restrictive clauses" of the Bill of Rights
    are supposed to check -- is serious business, not just a Hallmark card

    Those assembled expressed in no uncertain terms their anger that
    government had stepped so far outside its delegated boundaries, exercising
    unchecked powers, intruding into aspects of our lives that would have
    appalled the Founders, infringing upon or virtually eradicating freedoms we
    hold dear, and failing in its primary obligation -- the protection of our
    freedoms and rights. We found broad consensus on these points.

    This reading of the Bill of Rights is potentially a very dangerous thing.

    The government is not likely to take kindly to direct threats to its
    powers -- which the Bill of Rights specifically represents -- especially as
    it is held in hand by an angered people. The very idea that the people
    would take it upon themselves to examine government's abuses, usurpations
    of powers, abuses of authority, and contraventions of the very Bill that is
    meant to constrain government actions, is inflammatory.

    At what point do the people, oppressed and incensed by the abuses of
    government, act directly to limit and yes punish those responsible? When
    are "public servants," feigning to guard us against infringements, brought
    to justice?

    How is that government to react to this frontal assault on itself by the
    Fourth Branch of government, we the people? Do "officials" sit idly by and
    say yes, you're right, we screwed up, we'll leave you alone now? Or do they
    see the challenges as extra-legal, unwarranted foment, subversions of their
    unchallenged authority, and cause for retribution and retaliation? What do
    they tell their compliant press corps to tell the masses about all this?

    By what means do the people rightly resist tyrannical, undelegated,
    unchecked abuse of power -- when elections and indignant letters to the
    editors have no effect? At what point does push come to shove? The people
    assembled asked -- where is the tipping point?

    We have very real concerns. The abuses are not imagined, not temporary,
    not short lived, not arbitrary, not about to dissipate on their own, and
    not acceptable.

    How It Went

    If there was one common theme revealed in Bill of Rights Day 2008 this was
    it -- the federal government has overstepped its bounds with respect to the
    restrictions placed upon it by the Bill of Rights. Our rights are under
    assault. There was no disagreement. Too many felt the Bill of Rights was on
    life support.

    Our government is exercising powers it has not been given, and it's not
    acting to limit the abuse. No one realistically expects such change to come
    from within.

    There was inconsistent agreement on which abuses were worse, but there was
    unanimous consent that government had grown large, ugly and usurped powers
    it had no legitimate claim to take. The Tenth Amendment seemed to emerge as
    perhaps the most important and egregiously abused:

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
    prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or
    to the people."

    Just who is responsible for enforcing the Bill of Rights? Is Congress, or
    the Attorney General, or Senator McCain, or the Speaker of the House? Are
    they charged with the duty to enforce the limits on themselves? Pure
    experience reveals that to be ludicrous. The limits on government are
    enforceable only by the Fourth Branch of government -- we the people!

    The Bill of Rights was put into place by the Founders who recognized that
    government would naturally and inexorably exceed its bounds, acquiring more
    and more power. The Founders wrote basic rules for where that power must
    end. But they wisely left it up to the people to demand and enforce those
    limits -- government by its nature will do the opposite.

    Perhaps we have for a time neglected our responsibility under this
    document. It is time to renew our watchful eye over those natural and
    necessary limits on government, which the Bill of Rights demands. We are
    the guardians. The requirement to act falls to us.

    That's why Bill of Rights Day is dangerous. For if the people rise up and
    demand the limits placed on government, government is at risk. Its power
    and lifeblood are directly challenged by the very people it seeks to
    govern. The people's interest in limiting, regulating and governing those
    who govern threatens those who govern, and rightfully so. But so it should
    be in a free society.

    We reached some pretty dangerous conclusions that day, 250 members of we
    the people, in Congress assembled, in the magnificent Wrigley Mansion --
    itself a free-market product of the very freedom we sought to preserve. The
    Fourth Branch of government examined the other three and found them
    lacking. We were not happy (although congregating that evening was pure

    But who rises up, pitchfork in hand, and says enough? Surprisingly, many
    seemed at or near that breaking point, and these were decent and good
    citizens, your peers from around the neighborhood. How would government
    view that?

    We had recommendations on the table -- from prison terms for violation of
    oath of office to heads on pikes. Suggestions ranged from statutes to
    punish errant politicians to periodic criminal background checks for every
    government official in the land. Burning gasoline-soaked-tire destruction
    of photo-radar tax collectors that surveil the innocent. Jail for judges
    who subvert the law or invent their own. Fully informed juries. Tax revolt.

    We the people hungered for the common decency and rule of law we believe
    we are promised but that we do not receive. To a government bent on control
    and plunging headlong unbridled we edged perilously close to... well let's
    just say it got pretty uppity. I steered it away from a precipice more than

    Two hundred and fifty of my neighbors and friends packed into the Wrigley
    Mansion ballroom the night of Dec. 15 and examined the Bill of Rights. Well
    dressed, well mannered, well heeled, we assembled for a night of light
    ebullience, an evening of recognition, honorifics, celebratory drink and
    dining. We found ourselves in a ferment of redress of grievances.

    Bill of Rights Day is not some mild mannered milquetoast celebration, it
    is functional. The government is failing us, exercising powers we have not
    delegated, interfering with our essence, eating out our substance. It is
    unacceptable, implacable, must not continue. The Bill of Rights, not
    government edict and largess, must prevail.

    We at Wrigley found ourselves appalled and unfortunately without consensus
    as to how to proceed. Author Claire Wolfe poignantly asked ten years ago,
    what do you do when it's too late to work within the system but too early
    to shoot the b@stards? Did she encapsulate the problem with this:

    "The ideal citizen of a tyrannical state is the man or woman who bows in
    silent obedience in exchange for the status of a well-card-for herd animal.
    Thinking people become the tyrant's greatest enemies."

    America needs 1,000 chapters of the Committee for the Bill of Rights, in
    1,000 cities. A thousand points of light in this stygian darkness. We need
    to speak with a singular voice as the quintessential branch of governance.
    "You have no delegated power to take money from us in taxes and give it to
    businesses you deem poorly run. You don't. Whatever consequences you
    promise, whatever horrors you predict, you lack power to address the
    invented problems in this manner. You must cease and desist or face prison
    or worse."

    Like I said, this is dangerous stuff. How far away is the tipping point?
    When do the intolerable acts put pitchforks in the faces of the Dodd-Franks
    who insist on our passive compliance -- while undermining our banks and
    homes? When do the house and senate speakers and "leadership" cross the
    point of no return? They are moving in that direction with no signs of

    Who raises a hand when asked, "Do you want your taxes to go up?" How is it
    then that our elected officials keep raising our taxes? That's got a name.
    "Taxation without representation." When you have representatives but they
    fail to represent you, you are unrepresented -- while craftily deluded into
    thinking otherwise.

    It's wrong to cast this as some sort of partisan dilemma. This not about
    the Republicans vs. the Democrats. This is about the government vs. you.

    This is statism vs. individual freedom. The forces that have subjugated
    mankind since time immemorial are fighting the liberties that have created
    the greatest prosperity and abundance the planet has ever known. For all
    the political drawbacks of the classic "libertarian" philosophy, its
    underlying adoration of personal freedom, the right to be left alone, the
    right to do as you please as long as you harm no one, this must be
    rekindled. The late author and statesman Harry Brown recognized that
    government is a way for one group of people to impose its will on another
    group of people. We need less imposition and more free will.

    "Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave
    little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different,
    but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and
    government by wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by
    uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The
    one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a
    patron, the last a punisher."
    --Thomas Paine, Common Sense 1776

    Those of you who missed the meetings this year, mark your calendars now.
    Bill of Rights Day, Dec. 15, 2009, falls on a Tuesday.

    Maybe we need to meet before then.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Alan Korwin
  4. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I have to disagree with that OGM, just because the small number of actual people required to make the move. They will be villainized and labeled as "Domestic Terrorists" and even those among us that still try desperately to cling to our flags, will side with the MSM version and demand our pound of flesh. The "shot heard around the world" this time will not be fired by a gillied malitiaman, but one of the guys down at the sporting clays club that was appalled by a policeman gunning down an innocent tax demonstrator.
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

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  6. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

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    If this interests you, go to infowars to view the rest of the interview.
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    A year ago if somebody laid out the recent headlines, it would be considered impossibly surreal. I don't understand how congress can sit on its hands and take "we won't disclose where the money went". I'm gonna write that in"line 34" of my 2009 1040...see ya in the prison yard...
  8. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder


  9. hacon1

    hacon1 Monkey+++

    Thanks a's gonna take a while to clean up the iced tea I just spit all over the keyboard and screen.

    God, I love this place!
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