Firearm ID - Again

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by kckndrgn, Jan 14, 2007.

  1. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Ok, I've got another firearm that I cannot identify. After spending several hours searching the net, I'm no closer that when I was when I started.

    I have .22lr rifle, missing the buttstock, but other than that it is completly functional. I have cleaned it the best I can but it will need to get re-blued as it appears to have been laying in some water on one side :(

    Here are the identifying marks:
    1) Where the buttstock would attach to the receiver, it is stamped "Reg in US pat office", under that in big letters "WINCHESTER", below that "Trade Mark" ( I think, the "MARK" is kinda hard to read)

    2) On the bbl next to the receiver "NOISELESS" and "22 LONG RIFLE".

    3) on the rear sight "Pat Jan 29, 1901"

    3) on the bbl near the rear sight "The Hopkins & Allen Arms Co, Norwich, Conn, USA"

    4) There is no front sight on the bbl, only a threaded portion of the bbl (as seen in the photos below)

    That's it for markings.

    Any information about this would be great. I am thinking of trying to either find or make my own stock, and find some way to replace the front sight to make this usable again.

    Thanks again.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  2. andrew414

    andrew414 Howdy.

    That's a winchester model 1906.
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

  4. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  5. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Looks just like the rifles that the old time carnivals used for shooting galleries. Cool little collectors piece to have.
  6. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The 1906 was made until 1932 and then the 62 and the 62a picked up, primarily as gallery rifles in .22 short. the feed tube had a triangular loading slot. Seems like the 62 and 62a serial numbers started around 98000. If this is chambered for 22LR, then it is probably a 1906.
  7. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I was thinking it might me a 1906, but some minor differences was questioning that.

    For example, why do I have a threaded end on the barrel, and no front sight? Nothing in any pictures I could find says that they have a threaded end.
    Also, in pictures of the 1906 I have found the bbl is stamped "22 short long, or long rifle".

    Seacowboy, yes, I can read the SN, but which one is it? Is it the one behind or in front of the trigger guard? I can PM you both of the numbers if you are interested. Using both numbers the gun was mfg 1915 or 1919.

    Thanks for the help.

  8. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    It's prolly contraband. Turn it in quick ;)
  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Melbo's gun repository?
  10. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    The Survival Monkey home for wayward firearms. :sneaky:
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    You have a later issue. Earlier ones are labelled for a specific 22 (s, l, lr). Also the threaded muzzle is for a silencer that was legal in those days. The number in front of the trigger guard (on the muzzle side of the take down) is the correct number. Mine has matching numbers on the tang and the receiver.
  12. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Once again, the collective knowledge of the Monkeys blows me away!

    [applaud] You guys are amazing!!![applaud]
  13. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    May not be contraband, but definitelyhaving a friend of mine the MPD running the serial number to check if it is stolen. Lets just say, knowing who had the gun prior to me would make me think that it is a "hot" gun".

    Thanks again for the help. SM definitelyhas a wealth of knowledge.

  14. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    OK, I've found a replacement barrel for this gun, anybody able to give me pointers on removing the old one? I would assume there is some sort of "lock-tite" on the old one, how can I break that bond, heat?


    (p.s. I noticed I deleted the pics from my server, sorry, I'll have to find them again)
  15. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Is the replacement barrel threaded the same as the old one?
  16. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Very unlikely loctite was used last time, wasn't invented. If you don't have a barrel wrench, go to the local cobbler shop (a REAL cobbler, now) and beg a few scraps of HARD sole leather, say 3/8 to 1/2 thick. Put the receiver in a vice, padded with the leather, and pad a stillson wrench with the same stuff. Have at it, then, carefully, after finding an inconspicuous spot to make a match mark in case you want to reuse the same barrel later. If that doesn't work, you can try heat, BUT be very careful that you don't get it hot enough to mess with the finish, temper or hardness. You can get some temp stiks at your local welding supply house to smear on and get a pretty good idea of how hot you are getting. (No, I do not know how hot that pair of metal parts can get without damage.)

    Measure the threaded area on both barrels, make sure they are exactly the same, the new one may need to have the chamber end (threaded portion) shortened. If the new one is too short, you are into some serious machine work to cut the barrel back a mite and carry the threads longer. It is pretty critical that the face of the chamber end of the barrel is at the same spot relative to the receiver face.

    BTW, if the old barrel is not too badly munged up, you can get it bored out and sleeved, completely fresh barrel ready to shoot. Luck.
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