Firearms and all it entails on a budget

I have to echo ghrit here...I couldn't begin to recommend a gun without at least some idea of the intended use.

 

High Standard Model 10B


SEMI-AUTOMATIC TACTICAL DEFENSE WEAPON.

HIGH STANDARD GAS OPERATED SEMI-AUTOMATIC SHOTGUN ... 12 gauge ... 18" barrel ... weight 9 lbs 6 oz (with flashlight & sling) ... 26" overall ... chambered for 2 3/4" shells (high brass or magnum) ... 4 + 1 capacity ... square notch rear sight & flip-up blade front sight ... comes with mounted 'Kel-Lite' flashlight ... swivel stock allows gun to be fired from hip. elbow or right shoulder ... comes with an adjustable sling.

These guns were designed and developed by a Santa Monica, California police sargent named Alfred Crouch, for use as a SWAT tactical firearm. In the mid 1960s Crouch sold his design to High Standard who used their Flight King shotgun as the platform for the product. In the late 60s and in the 70s these guns were sold to many police departments and some foreign militaries. The compact size, manuverability and ability to use with one hand make these a formidable self-defense weapon. The shooter can fire five 12 gauge shells of his choice just as fast as he can pull his trigger finger.

 

Yard dart you answered the question as it was Intended. I think. Really great suggestions.

 

@ghrit & @PaxMentis what does a prepper need a gun for? Let's say the typical suburban family has now had their eyes open and thinks that S may HTF. They live paycheck to paycheck and upon visiting prepper/survival sites they see the talk of weapons. They have no idea what type of S will HTF or what the future holds but they think they should have some type of weapon. Decisions, decisions....

 

That is an easy one, moto. Sooner or later, someone will attempt force to requisition or repurpose what you saved and scrimped for. Something that your future depends upon. (Such as your food or your generator) and you need to be able to deny that requisition request.
Or you will have a large aching hole where you belly is, and have no means to convince that small game or critter into the pot. It is a reach out and touch someone kind of thing. And tends to work on critters both four legged and two legged. Being armed, invites other people to make better decisions.

 

Why do you think us Cowboy's wear dusters? It really ain't because it makes us look cool

 

Long coats, are why sawed off shotguns are illegal. No one want to face one at close quarters.

 

I would advise that, instead of looking at "one" weapon, that a person look at what to get first. Save for the first, then start saving for the next.

Surprisingly, considering my position that a .22 is not always the best gun upon which to train, I would really agree with YD (and a few others) and say that, at least on a tight budget, I would probably recommend a 10/22 first. It is relatively inexpensive, ammo is still reasonable enough that a person can get enough to practice regularly and just about anyone can shoot it accurately...it is also good for most small game and even birds in a pinch. With good aftermarket high-cap mags it can be an effective defense weapon.

#2 would be a shottie. For those with little experience or small frames, I would depart from the conventional wisdom which says 12 gauge and go with 20 gauge...ammo is lighter and easier to carry a good supply of, it is easier for a person (especially a small person) to fire and does not have the kick that discourages a new shooter. "Bigger is better" is not always true, and few animals (2 or 4 legged) will be a problem for a 20 gauge slug or a round or 2 of #0 buckshot. For birds, a good stock of #6 or #7 shot will take care of business.

#3 would be a decent 9mm handgun. Again, easier to control than a .45 and the ammo is appreciably lighter. You may hear stories about someone not being stopped by a 9, but I have personally never seen it happen with a center mass double tap...and I was taught and teach that one never fires a handgun once. Again, the ammo is reasonably priced and easy to carry "enough" of.

#4 would be a "real rifle". Again, I recommend the smaller 5.56 for pretty much the same reasons as the shotgun gauge and handgun caliber. I personally like the AR type frame, but some people do better with a Mini-14. (I also like the AK101...which in reality is a Saiga .223 "unsportserized" back to the AK configuration...but it is appreciably heavier than the AR...and fairly spendy)

I came close to recommending a 9MM carbine as #4, and probably would do so for a person who has some decent experience with firearms...especially if they live (and plan to stay) in an urban area. My "car carry" (in addition to the handgun that is pretty much always at my waist) is a Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 9MM that takes the same magazine as my Glock. It folds to fit in a laptop case along with 4 32rd mags and it can be handy to have a weapon that uses the same ammo as one's handgun but better midrange accuracy and punch. I also keep one by my bed at home and when in the motorhome. It takes some practice (failure to tuck it into one's shoulder firmly enough will cause stovepipes) but is a good reliable 50 yard weapon for someone accustomed to it.

 

Perfectly 100% legal. Depending on where one lives and if you have paid the $200.00 tax stamp on a form 1 (DIY) or form 4 (purchase from gun shop).

Of course this gets you on the "Grab my guns first" list.

 

One thing to look out for with a 20ga. For a new shooter, a 20ga. Shotgun shell will slide half way down a 12ga. Shotgun barrel and jam there. a hasty 12ga. Round to follow could blow up the barrel!
Never carry any 20ga. Shells while using a 12ga

However, for single shot shotguns, adapters are made....

 

I dunno, but I've owned an M1A and currently have a SA-1911-A1...and I can honestly say, they're NOT your dad's firearms. Cheap garbage parts from other parts of the world slapped together in a rush to get the firearms out the door at a price point that is not reflective of the poor state of the product. Loose sights, broken hammers, bad screw threads, etc. Never again. I bought a FAL. Even after some cheap Russian ammo blew in the chamber (completely split/separated at the base). The headspace and all checked out fine and I was back shooting it 2 weeks later. Mind you: my knuckles were hairless for weeks as well and a nice Austrian mag was destroyed.

But I digress.....

Always have a 22LR. I would even suggest having a 22LR upper for your favorite AR15 if you don't want to tote two complete rifles. I do have a 22LR CZ bolt gun, but I really like using my AR lower on the 22LR upper. It just "runs the same", ya know! That being said, I really like bolt-action 22's, though. Super easy to run (not as finicky as semiautos can be sometimes) and super accurate for making those shots at small targets. Oh yeah, and easy to suppress.

Shotgun: Can't go wrong with a good old pump action 12 guage. Slug, 00, or #4 will get any job done!

Rifle: I'm a bit on the fence with this one. I don't shoot beyond 300 yards. 223 is more than adequate for this use, but I'm a 308 fan. I do have a 308 bolt gun and, of course, the FAL. I understand that I can carry extra ammo at lower weights with an AR, but the FAL is just....well....it is what it is. I mean I like the AR platform (light & easy to shoot), but I just likes me some 30 cal and I do believe I could jam a dog turd in the FAL and it'd shoot it just fine! Blonde vs brunette, I suppose. They're all good!

Sidearm: Like the rifle, I'm on the fence. I like the capacity, shootability, and availability of 9mm, BUT I'm a 45ACP guy. My first pistol was a 1911. My second was an XD45. 13+1 rounds of 45 goodness. I like the 45ACP even though I know most modern ammo brings it all down to shot placement. I've also noticed that being able to handle the 45ACP translates to me being able to shoot everything from 357MAG down to 380 without issue.

So, I figure:
Pistol: XD45 ("better capacity" polymer 45ACP). Second choice would be any modern full size 9mm such as a Glock, XD, or M&P.
Shotgun: Mossberg 500 12guage.
Rimfire: 22LR rifle. CZ452 (sporter type). Second choice would be a good 'ol Ruger 10-22.
Centerfire Rifle: I'm not that good of a shot, but the FAL works for me at about 1.5MOA with good ammo or my handloads. Second choice would be an AR15.

Need also: Cleaning kit(s), basic tools (punches, screw drivers, small hammers, etc.).

Eye protection: Don't scrimp on it. Buy a bunch of safety googles if you wear glasses OR invest in good ballistic lenses on your next trip to the optometrist. Heck, get and use both!

Hearing protection: Again, don't go cheap. Active ear muffs are great nowadays and are worth it.

Training: Get it rather than another gun. Seriously, it's more fun than you think it'll be AND you get to run your guns hard doing things you can't do at a regular paper range AND you'll figure out what you need to practice. I've done a 'night fighting' course, and lemme tell you what: that's a whole bunch of interesting stuff going on in the dark! Fun, fun, fun as well.

 

I'm not sure about some of the advice I am seeing here. "Always have a .22"?? Perhaps if you already have thousands of rounds stockpiled. The last .22 ammo I saw for sale was $50 a brick, and not much was available. At that price, I can cast the bullets, and load any centerfire handgun cartridge for the same cash outlay. Unless a lot more .22 ammo suddenly showed up when I wasn't looking!

 

The string started out as what one firearm would you purchase if on a budget and a novice. What you say is true, but not for a newbie without a firearm,let alone all the equipment/experience needed for reloading.

 

.22 ammo is back in stock now in lots of places. Even the good stuff is back on the shelves. I have Shotguns, rifles and just bought a new AR-15 . My .22 marlin bolt action is the most important gun I have. I have thousands of rounds for hunting. So many that me , my son and his son will never run out. Shotguns are a joke . Shells are expensive, heavy and bulky. Sure they are the best close range long gun and that is why I have several. Great for in my Yard close quarters defense. Good for nothing else to me. I can take any game up to a deer in my A.O. with a .22 and do it easily and quiet and not fill the damned thing with pellets. I can take geese on my lake with .22 shorts. Rabbits, squirrels, birds, coons, possums, deer and about anything else around here with one shot from my .22. My shotguns, 30-06 rifles and the new AR are for defense ONLY. Bolt actions and lever action rule because they can soot shorts, longs and long rifle rounds. Sub sonics to 1750 fps Aguilas. Easily the most versatile weapon in the survival world. Unless you will be hunting bears , elk, and giant pigs. I dont have any of those in my A.O.

 

Found plinking .22LR Friday at a Wally's in Texas back down to $.05 per rd. in Winchester bulk packs. They had a limit of 3 boxes of 222 rds.

 

The first question is what is the need you plan to fill with a firearm? As quickly as you change your need; my answer will change.

Shooting small game with a 22RF fills the pot. Shooting the same game with a deer rifle leaves splatter. Semi auto clones of military weapons are force equalizers and a deer rifle is most definitely not a force equalizer.