Firearms and the elderly!

Let me further the derailment of this thread....

Yes, all ammunition is deadly. Fully agree.

I believe that it is a mix-n-match (to whichever sides favor) of perspectives and already existing issues. The military goes to WAR and can not use hollow point ammunition. It's ok if we bomb them back to the stone age, but don't use hollow points in your rifles or pistols. Yeah, because if I just wound you, then your buddy, another buddy and a medic show up. Now the medic will have 3 casualties to deal with and have to call for more people to help carry those 3 back to get some treatment and help. This in turn, provides me with more targets and I'm thinking to myself "Next!"

In a personal defense situation, there is no medic and if your buddies are smart, they are high tailing it the other direction.

 

Since when are we bound by Not using hollow points for personal defense ammo at home?

 

Since I was very young, the concept of humane warfare has boggled my mind. That said, in a defensive situation I would use what was on hand (and in the chamber in front of the firing pin). What was that bumper sticker? Better judged by 12 than carried by six.

 

We, as citizens are not bound. The military is. Which is why I said...
"I believe that it is a mix-n-match (to whichever sides favor) of perspectives and already existing issues"

 

If I was to drill out the hollow points on my 330 grain cast 45/70's and glue in a 22 blank in the hole primer side out, Is this considered an explosive round suitable for self defense or is this an ATF approved hunting round?
Inquiring minds want to know?

 

I would wonder if the impulse of the round going off would set off the 22. For SURE I would not want to load any type of mag with a pile of 'em.

 

I think my point was missed about handloads and bullet selection. Unless we have a complete societal breakdown the statement that "Every bullet has a lawyer riding on it." will remain true. I choose not to use handloads, and in some cases, potentially over-penetrating FMJ bullets in defensive handguns because of claims that could be raised by lawyers at trial. Legal defense of such claims as the "especially deadly bullet" claim, and demands for ballistic tests could run $100,000.00 rather quickly.

Corbon, Winchester and every other manufacturer has done all this for me, completely eliminating concerns about any surprises in court. I thought all this through a couple decades ago. Every spring I shoot up the ammo I've carried for the past year, verify that it's still working perfectly, and buy a new box. My mags are reloaded and that box goes in the back of the safe.

Young or old, everyone that carries a defensive handgun has to answer "the question" in their own mind as to whether they can take another human life in self defense. If we're wise we've also come to grips with the fact that this dead human had family who likely won't see things as we did. Understanding the consequences of a defensive shooting won't make me hesitate if the need arises. If I hadn't answered all these questions a long time ago I wouldn't carry every day.

 

I would not care to be within 20 yards of the point of impact.....

 

This took me way down a dusty memory lane. For educational purposes only: I saw a similar experiment in the early 1970's with .58 caliber conical (Minie' Ball) bullet with the base cast solid and a .22 long rifle cartridge installed in a drilled hole in the nose for ignition, and 3X .22 LR cartridge powder in the hole behind it. Tested against a #10 can full of sand at 25 yards an unmodified hollow base bullet would penetrate the can and leave it standing with most of the sand intact. The enhanced bullet penetrated only one side of the can, and emptied it of most of the sand. No bullet fragments could be found. To complete the experiment a can was shot with the hollow base of the bullet forward. The results were just about in the middle of the test spectrum, with one side penetrated and half the sand blown out of the can. A very large and flat lead "splat" was recovered from the can.

From these observations I sure wouldn't recommend these enhanced bullets for much of anything. Might be good for an extended vacation in a penitentiary nowadays.

 

Glue a bb on top of the .22 or put a blackpowder cap on top after filling the hole with blackpowder. Drill the hole the same size as the cap is and fill with powder.

 

Interesting.....
I never considered 9mm on the AR platform...
You have me thinking now. Which is always a bad thing......
Especially since 9mm is my primary handgun caliber and I have tons of it stashed by.

 

A .30 carbine old school looks more power than a .357 and was designed to replace a .45 1911... Nuff said....

 

The answers I had running through my head before I got to the end of your post was a lightweight commander in 9mm or .38 super. The M&P with the external safety in 9mm was next. Light weight wheel gun in .357. Folks may snicker here but I have two neighbors down the road aways that just bought the Taurus Tracker in .357mag. They are nice pistols. 7 shot, SS for 4 bills. I've had both apart, smoothed the actions a touch not that they were bad out of the box because they weren't. Both shoot just as well as Sass's S&W 66 no dash from the 70's. Several elderly folks from the area have come to me with the same issues. It's really a case by case issue. I now have 3 "little 'ol ladies" and one WWII vet packin the PMR 30 with Hornady defence rounds. Not sure about y'all, but I damn sure don't want to get hit with 30 rounds of .22mag per mag change..

Was gonna suggest a 6.5 Swede for your Dad. You know as well as I that although it's louder, installing a muzzle break/porting will tame recoil at least 30%. Might be an option as well, but it sounds like you got 'er covered.

I am almost 56 yrs old and have treated my body poorly. Over the years I have broken every major bone in my body at least once with the exception of my spine and pelvis. Many of them several times. So far I've been blessed as far as shooting handguns go. No issues there. But I do find myself reaching for one of Sass's 20 gauges more than my 12's nowadays because of my shoulders. My A5's and Benelli's are still ok to shoot, but I feel the 870 in 12ga more and more every time I go out back to practice. Which has got me to thinking of converting one of my old Remington model 11's into a defensive scattergun..

Excellent post my Brother

 

I have built several. This one is my step son's everyday duty weapon.
Uses Glock mags.

That's a full mag at 30 yrds.

 

Just picked up a NITB 80's vintage SS Delta Elite 10mm

 

You nailed it Bro.
While I'm still the sheepdawg here day to day, my role in our group has changed. Too old n slow for the first string now, my role is armorer, one of the medical backups and teacher.

 

This is a real concern to some folks.
Years ago I shot with a guy that carried the same loads he used in IPSC. 200 grn SWC in .45ACP. That's all he ever shot, all he ever had in his house,ect. While I will say that it is impressive what that round will do to flesh, I've never been of the same thought. I'm still fond of, and carry the "Flying Ashtray" in that calibre and 185 JHP's for my 10mm.

 

My issue with the 10 mm is the lack of decent defensive loads above 180 gr, and above .40 S&W hot power levels, what's the point of carrying a 10 mm if you are limited by that? Outside of Anti Bear loads with their 200 to 220 gr solids, I have found exactly 1 Factory load, Grizzly Ammo out of Rainier Or. that makes a good 200 gr hollow point pushed to 1250 FPS which should work as needed! Ballistic gel tests look promising so I'm stocking up on it! It's $1.20 a shot, so I need to be thrifty while testing it out, but it feeds through all my 10 mm pistols EXCEPT the Glock G-20, which shows signs of trouble brewing! I don't use the Glock much any more, but cannot bring my self to get rid of it!
SIG makes the 180 gr V-Crown ammo that's pretty stout, I have been carrying them in my Kimber lately and it shoots them especially well. My others seem to really favor the Remington GoldenSaber bullets hand loaded to max pressure, MV runs around 1340 FPS for the 180 gr bullets!
I tried a Comander with Dad, initially it seemed to work out for him, but it only worked in .45, any switch to another caliber and the recoil spring got too stiff, and when the .45 got to stiff for him, we thought we were going to be stuck with a revolver, which with his 5 in Python, wouldn't have been an issue, but it's not exactly a carry piece! the Smith .40 2.0 got us another year down the road, but now it looks like the Glock 43 is going to be the last shot at an auto!
Practical rifle needs saw more impact power needed then range, and recoil being a real issue now days, the .44 Ruger seemed to work the best, though a Remington 660 shark fin .308 did manage to sneak its way into the trunk for trials once I install a brake on the snout! Those new Bubba Brakes seem to work extremely well for their size, so we will see how it goes, if nothing else, WonderWoman gets a new rifle for Christmas! LOL Like she needs another .308, she has 4 of them already!

 

You'll know you're REALLY an old fart when you start getting advertisements for Medicare plans - LOL