food storage and problems

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dragonfly, Sep 28, 2010.


  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    "Saw toothed grain Beetles"
    New one on me!
    It seems a friend of mine has recently had quite a bit of problems with these varmints....
    They came in with bags of rice and beans, purchased from "Costco".
    Now one entire bedroom is inundated with the beetles and he has to have an exterminator come and clean out the place.
    They literally ruined/destroyed bags of rice and beans he had stored inside a bedroom.
    Unless you can freeze the grains for some 24 hours or more ( ? ) and then re-package them into airtight containers, or, use nitrogen and flood the grains, inside say a plastic (food grade) 5 gallon bucket.....
    Then there is certainly going to be a lot of these problems in the future.
    I have read where some advocate the use of a piece of dry ice in the bottom of a plastic bucket, then pouring the grains on top. I can see where the cold would be ok, but not sufficient to kill all the pests. Also, the CO2 released, would not be a deterrent to most of the bugs!
    Now these pests/beetles come in with the grains themselves, and propogate rapidly...they eat thru the plastic bags the grains come in and spread all over the place.
    I have had the same problem with dry cat food in the large plastic bags for the past several months. I take and dump the cat food into a large gray plastic garbage basket, but it just keeps them contained in there. They do a LOT of damage, quickly! When I scoop out cat food, out comes the larvae and some fully "morphed" adult beetles!
    It's a mess!
     
  2. sstrauss

    sstrauss Monkey+++

    What part of the country is this in? I am in CO and often shop Costco.
     
  3. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Phoenix, Arizona.....
     
  4. BadgeBunny

    BadgeBunny Monkey+

    We have not seen this here in Oklahoma but thanks for the heads up. A friend of mine and I were talking about taking a trip to Costco (in Dallas) as there is not one in Oklahoma but I had not considered buying bulk food items there as we can get them here at Sam's.

    If you have enough freezer space you might try freezing the cat food like you would rice or flour.

    I have toyed with the idea of making my own dog and cat food. Seems prudent to me. Dual use for preps I already have. Don't have to put back bulky items that, should I find myself without pets at some point, humans could not use.

    It is a lot easier to stock PetTabs to make up for any nutritional deficiencies than it is to stock dog food for a couple of GSDs and cat food for 5 cats.
     
  5. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Curious, I've read from many credible source that using CO2 as a fumigation agent worked on pests in all stages of development. The purpose of dry ice is not to utilize the cold, but the CO2. As CO2 is heavier than O2, all the O2 is displaced by the CO2 as the dry ice sublimates.

    Carbon Dioxide Fumigation Technique to Control Insect Pests in Stored Products

    All of my LTS supplies that come to me in bulk (grains & legumes) get 48+ hrs in the freezer, then go into mylar bags with O2 obsorbers, then into sealed 5gal buckets with O2 absorbers (along with bay leaves both inside the mylar & outside).
    The O2 absorbers essentially make the air left in the bags & buckets nitrogen rich - which should prevent eggs & larva from developing, SHOULD.
    I haven't had a problem, yet. I've had some rice & wheat berries in storage for 1.5 yrs before I was able to rotate them into use, replacing with more rice & wheat prepared in the same manner.

    I have never relied on the bulk bags that product is purchased in for storage, it's not designed for that. Bugs & rodents can easily get into those packages.
     
  6. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    That's why I put layers of salt in rice, beans and other beanie stuff...no bugs!
     
  7. sstrauss

    sstrauss Monkey+++


    That is a new one to me, please elaborate.
     
  8. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Ditto.
     
  9. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I could see using a large bottle of CO2, as welders have, but the "best" I have heard of so far, was using nitrogen to flood all grains and foods for storage.
    That would do miracles! No rot, nothing can grow or live in the nitrogen environment! Not sure how hard it would be to get a bottle, or the regulator, but the hose would be easiest to obtain!
    I figure since nitrogen is an inert gas, and can't ignite anything, it would be the easiest to get, besides the CO2.
     
  10. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Well, in order to stop those bugs from infesting beanies and rice for longer storage, we put few layers of rice, then one layer salt, few layers rice, one salt...apparently bugs and other insects can't live with the salt...this is an old trick I was told by old folks...so far, it works on our bugs...
     
  11. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    We will have a long term storage class at our gathering(15-17 Oct-NC). I use Argon from my welder tank. I bought a separate gauge and attached a 1/4" hose long enough to get to the bottom of any container. I just put the hose into it and fill with whatever goodies you want, turn on the gas till it overflows(you can "see" it), and seal the bags(I use food grade bags inside all containers)/put the lids on. The inert gas will kill anything there and is perfectly dry also. No need to ever worry about mold/mildew/fungus/or pests. Nitrogen or CO2 work equally well but I have easy access to Argon. As with any inert gas, do not breath it. When ready for use you can simply tilt the container over and let the gas "flow" out.
     
  12. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    The issue is the eggs are there just waiting for the right conditions to hatch.

    At work we got tons of rice bran in, good and clean so to speak.
    One week stored at outdoor temps, had weevils all over the stuff. No big deal for us as after first extraction all solids are removed (there dead stinking bodies).

    but the point is they're there. Irradiation would rid them or actually just kill them but there eggs/corpses would still be there. Or if we stored cold they'd be there but in wait, thus they wouldn't hatch before they hit the acid extraction.

    If the eggs are there you can't get rid of them, well you might but it'd be a major chore, you can delay their hatching with inert atmospheres or salting them, but they're still there.

    Bon apetite. :)
     
  13. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I don't see what the big deal with those tiny bugs is?...you get some cooked meat with your rice or beans...I must have eaten tons of them already... :D
     
  14. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Mmmmm, protein enriched beans---LOL. Bugs never hurt birds. Seriously, some bugs create problems that are insurmountable like the rice critters. They will ruin your stores.
     
  15. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Hmmm...you sound like you've never been on army survival preps... :D
     
  16. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    true, as once they hatch, then they start to consume, and with consumption comes defication.
     
  17. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    OK...they consume rice or beans or flour...what do they defecate? Uranium? They were hatched in the food! In the army we were once on the target practicing for 30 days, and it happened that lot of hot meals had those weevils in...we ate them all...and we asked for more! I would never throw out any food in SHTF because of the bugs! Since all the food is cooked, bugs, and anything else that might be there would be sterylized...so again, I don't see a problem here...
     
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