For the Resident Goat Herders

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Clyde, Aug 25, 2011.


  1. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

  2. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Oh Lord....HELP!
     
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Well, since I will not be employing resident immigrants to "herd" my goats, tough nuggies, Obottom.

    What is next? Posh digs for range riding Cowboys and Vaqueros?
     
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    You still get to participate in the 38 bln annual costs. Me, too, unless I decide suicide is preferable.

    I can see the Basque herders in Wyoming trying to put all that in the wagons.
     
  5. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I'm thinking "rolling Motel 6's"!
    With room service of course!
    with the Continental breakfast, always!
     
  6. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    And Moochelle will be crafting the regs for the food their kids eat...... gotta keep them healthy.

    [kneelsuckers]
     
  7. eeyore

    eeyore Monkey++

    Just another way to regulate you out of raising your own food,
     
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    What are you all bleating about?

    Some countries and governments perhaps don't care what squalor the employers of rural workers may abandon their workers to...so long as the employer is making a buck.

    In Australia, accomodation and ammenities are treated partly as an industrial relations issue...and partly as Occupational Health and Safety issue. That the ammenity and accomodation conditions of pastoral workers are regulated under Industrial Legislation, and Occupational Health and Safety regulation is uncontroversial and has not resulted in the ruination of the pastoral or agricultural industries in Australia. Indeed, notwithstanding the "luxurious" conditions afforded to Australian pastoral workers, Australia is very competitive in overseas pastoral and agricultural markets.

    I don't think that Australia could be described a socialist paradise....but if employers want the best from their employees, then it's in their best interests not to expect that their employees will live in verminous substandard accomodation. But...perhaps...things are done differently in other places on the other side of the globe. Perhaps in some countries there are people who could not care less that some workers are treated like the cattle that they tend, but care greatly that the same workers might be protected from some of the more pernicious aspects of labour exploitation.

    What follows is one example of legislation regulating employers and emplyees in relation to accomodation, rationing and ammenities in accordance with the:

    QUEENSLAND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS COMMISSION
    Industrial Relations Act 1999 - s. 698 - reprint of award
    STATION HANDS' AWARD - STATE 2003 (As ammended)

    Each State in Australia has its own legislation regarding pastoral worker industrial awards and conditions of employment. Although they may vary somewhat frmo State to State in detail...the essence of the legislation is pretty similar between States.


    For those wishing to delve into the rest of the STATION HANDS' AWARD - STATE 2003 (As ammended) follow the link below.

    http://www.qirc.qld.gov.au/resources/pdf/awards/s/s1010_011110.pdf
     
  9. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    All the workers have to do is stop doing the job for the pay/benefits/housing being provided. The owners would then have to increase their pay/benefits/housing to the point that it entices the pastoral workers to actually work.

    Just waiting for the person that creates a robot to do the job of herding. Solar panels by day, robo cop by day and night.
     
  10. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    ...or a dog. ;)




    [OT] Hey chelloveck; What are Jelly Crystals??
     
  11. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Free market economics mechanisms don't solve every problem.

    And nor does excessive regulation....but somewhere between the two, a reasonable compromise can usually be achieved.


    Note 1. Market economics can offer effective mechanisms for regulating the supply and demand of many things...but in some respects it is a very blunt and inefficient instrument in ensuring equitable treatment of workers where there is a gross inequality between the power of the employer and the power of the employed. I guess if it were left solely to the market...there are many places, even in America, that would still use child labour in mining and manufacturing to produce dividends for enterprise owners / investors.

    The conditions described in the Queensland industrial award are minimum conditions....naturally employers can compete in the labour market by offering better conditions than the minimum...would that not satisfy libertarian sensibilities about market economics?

    Note 2. Although not robots...some employers use a near analogue....undocumented immigrants. They are usually dirt cheap to employ, and who are wet back goat herders going to complain to if they are exploited??? I guess it is of little consequence to consumers who don't much care how goat meat is derived...so long as it is cheap.


    Note 3. Guard dogs, donkeys, mules and llamas don't belong to unions, and don't require luxurious accomodation or ammenities....even so, animals are protected by animal welfare legislation and regulation, so it's not a completely free ride for goat farm owners.


    Controlling the coyote population - BBC wildlife - YouTube



    http://www.agr.state.tx.us/agr/main_render/0,1968,1848_5329_7078_0,00.html?channelId=5329


    http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/sheep/facts/donkey2.htm


    http://www.predatorfriendly.org/how-to/how-to-pdf-docs/Using%20Guard%20Animals%20to%20Protect%20Livestock.pdf



    Note 4. Pretty much hydrolised animal and/or plant collagen plus crystalised sugar, flavourings and colouring. Some of the uses of gelatin are to say the least, "interesting". I believe dissatisfied goat herders are a cheap source of collagen. : O


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin


    http://www.actrader.com.au/ProductionLines/JellyCrystal/JellyCrystal.html


     
  12. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder


    I've had guard dogs, and llamas before and if there was any animal welfare regulations I didn't know about them nor do I care about them. We take care of our animals the way we believe they should be taken care of, but if someone came out here talking that crap it wouldn't end well for them.

    BWM
     
    beast and Cephus like this.
  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Whether it be gun ownership

    or livestock ownership....ignorance of the law is no defence.

    Note 1. I would expect that most jurisdictions at local government, County, and State level have some regulatory control over the welfare and care of domestic and farm animals. In the case of prosecution for not meeting the minimum requirements of such regulation, ignorance of the law is no defence. A successful prosecution may possibly result in, among other things, affected livestock being confiscated, parties found guilty being refused permission to keep livestock, being fined and/or being incarcerated.

    Note2. If by taking care of animals in the way you believe they should be taken care of, you mean taking care of them humanely, and providing care no less than the minimum necessary in accordance with the law, then there probably won't be any issue with the enforcers of those laws. Unfortunately, some farmers / livestock owners are negligent in their care of their livestock, and in some instances have been prosecuted for it.


    Note3. I am not sure whether your remark
    is mere braggadocio, but you of course may use any lawful means of settling the matter if it comes to it.
     
  14. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Have to keep in mind..... these assinine regulations and laws are crafted by CITY politicians whose only care is to garner votes from the Leftwingers who cry whenever some farmer even looks at his animal wrong. These idiots have no idea where their thick juicy Porterhouse Steak comes from, or their morning eggs & ham. They crow about 'animal rights' while tucking into their meal.........

    Rather like medical regulations being crafted by your local plumber.
     
    beast likes this.
  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Nice pun, but

    I suspect that many people who buy their produce wrapped in plastic clingwrap from the supermarket have lost their connection with how their food is produced...not just some politicians. I think that more people have ethical concerns about how their food is produced than may be credited, particularly when their attention is brought to examples where livestock have been proven to be farmed inhumanely. That is reflected sometimes in the maket place by consumer purchasing choices...and sometimes in support of legislative regulation.

    When legislation is being drafted, in most democracies, interested parties...be they livestock producers (and their umbrella industry associations) or animal rights activists are usually given the opportunity to make submissions and put their case.
     
  16. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

     
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  17. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    quote from an elected official in my area..
    "all food comes from the store, there is no reason to have any farms anymore."
    dude was a retired LEO from detroit, had a college degree and other than that was a fairly decent guy
    but that quote?
     
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    That LEO needs a serious Education....... It just goes to show, there are College Degrees and then there is an Educated Man... Some folks just need a Education... at the School of Hard Knocks...... with an Advanced Degree from the School of Common Sense..... I mean, Duh..... .... YMMV....
     
    BackwoodsmanUSA likes this.
  19. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Chell, you made a couple of snide remarks about "things are done differently over there(US) and that we would still put up with child labor/etc. Words like that are not welcome, appreciated, or needed. There are good and bad people everywhere---not just the US. If you want to sling some mud then start with how the Aboriginies have been treated in your country and the treatment of wild 'roos. We all have things that we wish we had done differently but no need to make cutting remarks insinuating our lack of character. I can appreciate being "of the same coin" and even being on opposite sides of it but it should stop there. No need to "paint with a broad brush" like that. It only creates ill feelings and neither your country nor mine need that.
     
    Sapper John likes this.
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