For those FOR the death penalty with less safeguards

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hartage, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    This is our flawless justice system where only the truly guilty get convicted.

    /quote DALLAS - Three times during his nearly 27 years in prison, Charles Chatman went before a parole board and refused to admit he was a rapist. His steadfastness was vindicated Thursday, when a judge released him because of new DNA evidence showing he indeed wasn't. The release of Chatman, 47, added to Dallas County's nationally unmatched number of wrongfully convicted inmates. /quote

    We have found many ALREADY PUT TO DEATH that were exonorated and were innocent the whole time. Too bad they are already dead.

    I'm not against the death penalty, just against the death penalty with less safeguards. If the evidience is circumstantial and not hard evidence death penalty should be off the table. Error on the side of caution. How many innocents must we fry ?

    Or maybe keep everything the way they are but add a new law. If you are the judge and jury of the executed person that was found through hard evidence to be innocent you should be executed yourself. To clarify, a new law that would fry the judge and jury involved in the wrongfull execution. That should make people a lot more careful before they fry someone.

    The woman that falsely picked him out of the lineup and accused him of rape. I really wish we could put her in jail for 26 years with no parole to make up for the injustice her LIE inflicted.
  2. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I agree that more conclusive evidence should be required for the death penalty although I, too, support its use. Unfortunately, many of those wrongly imprisoned (some having been sentenced to death) were tried before DNA evidence was available. Most of you are probably too young to remember a time when it wasn't around, before DNA had been discovered/proven.

    We are a contradictory society. Our instincts when a crime is committed is to demand justice, demand the police find the criminal, demand the DA prosecute, demand an eye for an eye. The loudest cry is "Kill the **astard". Well, we can't have it both ways. Hard evidence isn't always there so we're in a quandary.

    If the evidence is irrefutable, proceed to the maximum but if there is a possibility of error or doubt, I agree that we cannot allow our desire for revenge to overpower our sense real justice.

    The only statement by hartage with which I take issue is
    Nothing I read indicated the victim lied. She may have in which case she should be responsible for perjury. However, there is a good chance she was mistaken. I have worked with enough victims of sexual assault to know that events of the crime are frequently jumbled and unclear. The mind plays funny tricks on an assault victim.
  3. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Sorry, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

    If the same woman were to have her mind jumbled and mistakenly put a gun to her head and it goes off she would be dead. The event could care less if her mind was jumbled or not mistaken or not she would be dead. (car accident same, fall off a cliff same)

    She put an innocent man in jail. There is no doubt that the event occured. There is no doubt she is the person that did that. Irrelevent of the excuses she did him wrong and she should pay the price for it. (same as what she inflicted on him)

    Of course when the real rapist is found (and proven without a doubt) he should be put to death for him initiating these events.
  4. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    You're right hartage, we'll have to agree to disagree. My world is inhabited by human beings who make human mistakes, not necessarily with malice in their hearts. It is most likely that this woman will suffer the pain of self-condemnation which will be far greater than the penalty you would impose.

    Were she tried for making a mistake, how many women do you think would testify against their rapists. The number would be pretty close to zero. Rape is already one of the most under reported crimes there is.
  5. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Her "mistake" (like ooops, sorry), completely ruined a man's life and put him in prison for 26 years...........

    She needs to pay. I'm not saying she wasn't understandably "jumbled", but if you're going to accuse someone, you'd better be damn sure.
  6. Valkman

    Valkman Knifemaker Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I just read a book about 2 guys the police went after in OK for a murder they didn't do. None of the evidence pointed to them so the cops provided snitches from the jailhouse who "heard" them confess to it and they were convicted and sent to Death Row. Luckily they had good laywers sign on eventually who got them a second trial and got them aquitted. I have nothing against the death penalty - just make sure they ARE guilty before you kill them.
  7. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Isn't this the very thing we've been discussing - imposing a penalty before we know the facts and before any guilt is proven. A knee-jerk reaction for vengance. I understand your feelings but unless it were proven the woman acted with malice and intent, I simply can't agree you with. As hartage said, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
  8. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    It truly would be sad to be locked up for something you didn’t do.
    However, She lived just down from him and my have mistaken him just out of the shear fact of seeing him a time or two days before.

    I would be curious as to how you would react to your Mother, wife or daughter being the one raped and the jailed 26 years later for being human and making the mistake.
    You have been dealing with her attack trying to get beyond the savage attack, and only to find the rapist probably has been stalking her all along, then knowing for sure he was out.
    So she picked him out of a line up, that doesn’t make him automatically guilty, there was a trial.
    The true guilt lies on the justice system and Im sure they will pay quite a sum for this, he won’t have any trouble find a lawyer to fight that case.
  9. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    And the rest of the story.
  10. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    And what do we say to the 20yo guy that was busy working then gets nailed for this. ??????

    " Oops we're sorry we screwed you out of your life. It's nobody's fault though since we didn't mean to do it. We were "jumbled" so it's not our fault. Ok cya, bye now. "


    You can't just F somebody out of 26 years then just walk away.

    I don't care if it's the blurry eyed b**** the brain dead judge, the jury the lawyers or one day in jail each for 9490 people that had a hand in it. (365x26)


    (just my little rant for such a huge injustice)
  11. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    By the same token, how would you feel if your Mother, wife, etc, got locked up for 26 years because of a false accusation?

    But on the other hand, I do agree with something else you said....
    It's not a simple issue, for sure. The womans id didn't send him to prison all by itself, but I'll bet it was the single largest determining factor. If he really didn't do it, then what other evidence could they have possibly had that wasn't total bullshit.

    I just get really pissed about our "justice" systems track record on innocent people. When I see an innocent punished by the system, it seems worse to me than even what the criminals do that they are supposed to protect us from.

    The whole system needs an overhaul, it's not working very well. The whole "adversarial" process seems fundamentally wrong. There is no attempt in a trial to get to the truth of the situation, only to win for your side.

    I don't know.....
  12. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    This is the most profound statement made in this entire thread. On this, I think we can all agree.
  13. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Hate to disagree but isn't that what the jury is for ? (not to be on a side but to get at the truth)

    But when they are fed LIES by some woman wrongfuly targeting an innocent man.......

    The only obvious failure here is that woman and her LIE
  14. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    The woman gets to move on with her life after the sex (however forced it was). Imagine being RAPED for 26 years straight ?

    Who is the more heinous rapist here ?
  15. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    The trouble is there needs to be a trial for her then, and they have to prove she knew it wasn’t him.
    I wouldn’t like 26 years of lock up of one of my family members I believed didn’t do it. I would fight to no end to right it, no matter the means.
    There is way more to this than she pointed the finger at him and he went away.
    There is now a witness law now in Texas or five witnesses I believe, EL will have to chime in on this one, but if I remember correctly 3 or 5 of them and you go straight on death row.
  16. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Show me where she lied and knew she did. Show me where she fed them “Lies”
    She pointed him out in a line up that’s all, she didn’t provide the blood test, and she didn’t argue the case. If anything he defense lawyer should be put on trial long before she is.
    Man...... I dont even know what to say to that, shows alot to me.
  17. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Well in my little world it would be cut and dry. She accused him cost him 26 years of his life she gets 26 years of her life taken from her. It does not matter if she knew or didn't know she pointed a finger and it was wrong. She aimed the gun and pulled the trigger, bang. It's simple, be careful of the accuracy of your accusations.

    My little world is so much simpler than the real world.
  18. Panhead

    Panhead On the Loose Founding Member

  19. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    In my little world (a libertarian one),

    Yes, people are held accountable for their actions, including false accusations.


    The only reason I see to incarcerate someone is because they pose a danger to us, and she does not. She should have to somehow make reparations for the bad that she caused (if indeed she did cause it). But throwing her in prison for 26 years doesn't do the wronged man any good, and it costs us a lot of money.

    As far as comparing the rape to the 26 years in prison...... I'm sure the rape was traumatic, but I have to think his was worse (and could have possibly included multiple rapes).
  20. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    If you truly believe that rape is sex, than you have a much bigger problem than just an opinion I find to be unreasonable and disagreeable.
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