forget the power... what happens when the pills run out?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GrandpaDave, Nov 1, 2011.


  1. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    This has been on my mind a lot lately... mostly because several of my clients here at work come to me for help paying for their meds...

    so lets talk... it's pretty well known in my circles that about 1/4 of the American population is taking some form of medications... everything from insulin, cancer drugs and of course the treatments for AIDS and HIV...

    needless to say they will be the first to go in a real SHTF... but what really worries me that other segment... and baby it's a big percent... I'm talking about those people who take

    antidepressants
    antianxiety drugs
    anti psychotics...

    of that group of the population about 10% will become violent or suicidal once off their meds... at the best of times most of these people will never have more than a 30 day supply at home... if this SHTF happened at the end of the month those pills will run out sooner rather than later...

    so when we plan about what to do JIC (Just in case) then we have to give some thought into what to do with the mentally ill... ... See most of these people are on some form of public assistance and cant get extra meds... even if they did any long term protracted outage will affect these people first...


    Frankly I have no answers... but it has been on my mind... what to do what to do... with luck and prayer it'll be something I never have to deal with... but you might?

    your thoughts?
     
  2. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    Though in cases like this it runs contrary to my chosen philosophy - that of a sheepdog - the fact of the matter is that I, like these folks, will have to accept that ultimately nature's law rules:

    Only the strong survive.

    There can be no rationally arguing that ultimately this rule is in the planet's best interest.

    And yes, even as I type this my own mind is screaming: "What about Steven Hawking - you trying to say he is not an asset to this planet you moron !?!?!"

    There are exceptions to every rule. But darned few of them in this regard. At least that is my personal opinion, and clearly that is something I am locked in an ongoing struggle with.
     
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    A sad, but real fact. When the meds run out people will die. Some slower than others. Until and unless big pharma can get meds distributed in a SHTF scenario, a large percentage of folks will die. Die off after a complete collapse, as calculated by absolutely needed medical medicines - blood pressure, insulin dependent diabetes, etc. and those that regulate a "quality of life" chronic pain meds, stipti pens (for severe allergic reactions), mood levelers, etc. - is close to 50% of the US populace and rising. While some sufferes of chronic pain can live, albeit uncomfortably, without pain meds, what kind of survival tasks can you perform if you have a chronically bad back, for example?

    Secondary effects like psychotic breaks will rise sharply as the meds run out.

    Perscription meds aside, what about those people hooked on drugs like cocaine (all forms), opiates, etc.? Within 90 days of a massive collapse, those folks are going to go bananas and they will only last that long if (and only if) they have enough wisdom to reduce their intake of these substances. Marijuana users, not so much.

    Living in "cocaine central" in the 80's I knew many people hooked on coke that never really had more than a days good binge on hand and were talking to their dealer on a near daily basis.

    Not to disregard the "entrepreneurial" smarts of the cartels, how do you transport your illegal drugs hundreds, if not thousands of miles when fuel is scarce?

    IMO, lack of any drugs of the legal and illegal stripe will cause death, directly or indirectly, and lots of it.

    Fair warning to any druggies who may think about raiding my place for stuff to sell after SHTF or to get more stuff (like food) to buy ever more increasingly expensive drugs. Keep well away from my place. Nothing inside is worth your life, and it will cost you. Hell, that applies today or any day.
     
  4. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    Like you it bugs me... rubs me the wrong way... but what can you do... far as I know there is no herbal replacements for the kinds of drugs these people take...

    still we're all grownups here... and if we're making plans for a SHTF... then it is an issue we have to consider... make allowances for... distasteful as it is
     
  5. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    dont forget the alcoholics... there may be more of them than junkies.... either way I think they'll be to busy dealing with the withdrawals to be much of a problem... as long as they keep their distance
     
    Falcon15 likes this.
  6. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Recently acquired a few books on Native American herbal plant medical uses. Cherokee Herbal by J.T. Garrett, and an expensive tome, Native American Ethnobotany by Daniel E. Moerman.
    .
    I am on blood pressure, and high colestrol pills. I wanted options.
     
  7. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    You cannot do much, outside of procuring a 3 month supply of needed script drugs for your family and loved ones. If you stretch that out, say reducing their daily dosage until their personal drugs run low, then continuing on a half dose, unless they start throwing bad symptoms, you could conceivably stretch their meds out to six, maybe seven months tops. I recommend getting a Physicians Desk Reference. Worth the money, as it lists a majority of the common drugs, their usages, dosages, etc. If you happen upon a cache of script drugs, then you not only will know what they are, what the side effects are, but the dosages, useage, side effects, and common names. I have 2 copies myself. One on a shelf and another vacuum sealed in an ammo can containing emergency medical supplies.
    Another thing to remember is "holistic" and homeopathic medicines. St. Johns Wort, for example, is a homeopathic treatment for depression. Melatonin (cheap and easy to acquire) aids in rest and relaxation.

    Although not all studies agree, ginkgo biloba may be help treat dementia (including Alzheimer's disease) and intermittent claudication, or poor circulation in the legs. It also shows promise for enhancing memory in older adults. Laboratory studies have shown that ginkgo improves blood circulation by dilating blood vessels and reducing the stickiness of blood platelets. This is a reasonable alternative to anticoagulant meds taken by heart patients. Just be careful, too much in your system and a cut will not clot properly and then you have blood loss to deal with as well.

    Alternative medicines, commonly found in your health food stores, can be a source of "medication replacement" post SHTF.

    Additionally, you have the hundreds of thousands of years in which the efficacy of "home remedies" and "treatments" have been tried, tested and succeeded. Willow bark for pain, mustard compresses for severe congestion, Garlic and onion water steam treatments for severe bronchitis, slippery elm for sore throat, cough, Chrones disease, diarrhea, burns, boils, psoriasis, and other skin irritations. Saharah Bedouins were infamous for using fresh urine to treat skin wounds and burns, heck even a skin specialist was noted as saying you should pee on your feet in the shower, it kills athletes foot fungus. The list goes on and on.
     
    Gator 45/70 and tulianr like this.
  8. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Tac: Cholesterol treatements, and Home remedies for high blood pressure
     
  9. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    It is before the withdrawal gets too bad, or just as the shakes etc are setting in that a junkie gets dangerous. Once full blown withdrawal happens, they become pretty useless in my experience, until the symptoms pass.

    Most hard core alcoholics are a non-issue, IMO. I have not hard of many cases where a hard core drinker kills someone to get money to buy a bottle of booze. Coke head? Crack addict? Heroin junkie? Different story.
     
    Tracy likes this.
  10. Nutpantz

    Nutpantz Monkey+

    Forget the addicts think about all those scratches and cuts that
    That there is no chance of finding antibiotics for.
    Feel bad for the junkie going into withdrawels? Think about every cough and cold that never became anything else with antibiotics.
    How many of the old plagues are waiting to make their comeback.
    But then I'll miss my tylenol by then that I'll be in withdrawl


    All spelling and grammar errors the fault of my phone.

    All spelling and grammar errors the fault of my phone.
     
  11. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    I have been studying herbalism(on my own, not through any school), and my sister who is studying to become a nurse, and she told me recently during a visit that it's being discovered that natural medicine is typically just as effective if not more so than 'conventional' medicine. I'm just glad my health problems stay pretty minimal by taking garlic and echinacea pills, both of which I can grow myself if need be. I agree with the 'law of the jungle' on a logical basis, but as mentioned, the emotional reality is different. I mean I wasn't supposed to have survived my first year, until a doctor was found who would actually do their job.
     
  12. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I've been collecting information on wild plants, that I know I can easily identify and locate on or near my property.

    There are tons of field guides out there, with hundreds and hundreds of plants in them, that don't grow within three hundred miles of me. I want to know what I have at hand, and what I can do with it.

    So, I'm collecting a good, representative photo of the plant at various times of the year, a good description, a list of edible uses, and a list of medical uses. I've been a little surprised at how many plants have medicinal uses.

    At the end of the entry, I'm collecting recipes for the plant. It's one thing to know that a plant is edible, but quite another to figure out how to make it palatable, and combine it with other wild foods to produce a meal. I'm putting all the pages into a loose leaf binder. I thought that I already knew quite a lot about plants, but I've learned quite a lot over the past few weeks that I've been working on this.
     
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Just a NOTE, here.... When SHTF, does anyone really care about how the "Universe came into being"? If Mr Hawking didn't do his Personal Preps, then he will not make it thru the first Month, just like all the rest of the Sheeple, who are Society Dependent, for life sustaining input. That is WHY WE Prep. So WE are NOT Society Dependent, for sustaining of life, for ourselves and our families. Yes, it is very SAD, that many will NOT make it, but it all goes to what individuals CHOSE, to invest their Time, Money and Talents, into. If it is Video Games, Drugs, a Liberal Arts Education, or other some such foolishness, then they will have Sealed their own Doom. We ALL will die, some will last a lot longer than others. It really is all about the Individual Choices, we chose to make for ourselves. Chose wrong, and you are gone, chose right, and you have a chance. ....... YMMV.....
     
  14. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Most of America is overweight so a little less food and more body movement may equate to the need for less drugs.

    Theres still a few people left that know how to make alchol (no one I know of coarse).

    The really scary thing is some sort of pandemic should happen and nothings avaible to treat it.
     
  15. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    As for antibiotics...for oral (pills) go shopping at your local fish and aquarium shop. The fish antibiotics are exactly what humans take, albeit at lower dosages. Again, a PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) is an indispensably valuable tool.

    Surface cuts washed out with isoprophyl alcohol (or vodka), heck regular old soap and water, then coated with triple antibiotic cream, with a nice sterile dressing (you will have the "bandaids" portion of your preps right?). Triple antibiotic cream is readily available at 99cent Only stores, dollar stores etc. I want to add that many folks with a good, inventor spirit and the drive can and likely will begin making homemade hooch. this can be used in a pinch for cleaning wounds, alcohol is a VERY good, but painful, wound cleaning item. Peroxide if you have it and it is not expired.

    Natural antibiotics for cuts and abrasions: garlic paste (natural antibiotic called allicin in garlic - Apply to the well-cleaned wound with a clean cloth one to two times a day. Discontinue if the treatment is irritating.), honey, white vinegar, aloe, and onion.

    The most IMPORTANT thing about cuts is irrigation and cleaning, followed by application of a topical antibiotic. Follow with oral antibiotics if the patient shows signs of infection in the wound. Massive cuts will likely require suture, however proper application of butterfly closures followed with a good tight dressing should keep a cut closed reasonably well.
     
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Sad indeed if/when otherwise good and valuable people will not make it. One thing I've consciously done is go about trying to harden my heart against the sure and certain loss of people that mean something to me, one way or another. It will happen. Taking an even harder approach, that being that a general trending of the population to a healthier post apocalypse population will result. How do you harden up? I'm not sure I have achieved the necessary hardening, but one must accept the need for it, or madness will find you.
     
  17. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Garlic is also a good antibiotic for pets too, just have to be careful since if they get too much, it can cause Heinz body anemia. Used it when my cat and a raccoon had a disagreement and that was when someone stole about half our bill money last year, so we couldn't afford a vet. Kept constant garlic 'tea' compresses on the wounds.
     
    Falcon15 likes this.
  18. Capt. Tyree

    Capt. Tyree Hawkeye

    Zombies anyone??

    Picture if you will a society gone off kilter, an existence composed of an outer zone "beyond the wire" with wandering refugees crazy hungry for food, rational thought trashed by lack of prescription meds, no clean water, no cell phones, and the beginning onset of various diseases.

    Small islands of sanity and health exist "within the wire" populated with rational, organized, forward-looking souls looking to weather the troubled time as best they can with their stored preparations. But they know they are outnumbered in the short-term, and subject to infection from...the ZOMBIES...if they come in contact with anything from beyond the wire---beyond the barricades.

    The healthy, sane folks have already considered what would have been unthinkable in better times. They are going for head shots on their fellow humans. Only now, because of the overwhelming numbers of them "beyond the wire" and attempting to come in, the sane and healthy think of them as---ZOMBIES--something less than human. They are truly in fear for their lives.

    Say, isn't all this ZOMBIE stuff really popular in our culture just about now? It's being played up with movies, TV series, The Center for Disease Control (CDC) public notices, even in bullet promotional ads.
    Are we being prepped by public opinion makers to think "ZOMBIE" for any wandering refugee groups of people, in far worse condition than ourselves, that are trying to take what we want to keep? For what purpose? Is something coming that would cause a "ZOMBIE reaction"?[stirpot]
     
  19. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'm beginning to think that all our elected officials fit the ZOMBIE category.

    1) Brain Dead
    2) One Track Mind (POWER as opposed to BRAINZ)
    3) Don't follow Instructions
    4) Herd Mentality
    5) Can smell blood in the water (and start a media frenzy)
    6) Can still hold office and vote with half a mind (ala Giffords)
    7) Very hard to get rid of.

    Sounds like the zombiepocolapse to me
    [flush]
     
    Falcon15 likes this.
  20. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Capt. Tyree
    Ever wonder what they'll do with all the bodies?
     
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