France Crackdown.

Well, lets see...just a couple of reasons off the top of my head: First, De Gaulle's public statements which may have done more to damage relations than his policies to influence public opinion in the United States. One such statement was, "You have to be sure that the Americans will commit all the stupidities they can think of, plus some that are beyond imagination", (Time, 8 December 1967). Many in the United States believed such remarks were not only crude but reflected profound historical ignorance from a man who owed his position and his nation's freedom to Churchill's support, against many attempts by the Americans to undermine his position. Additionally the incident in April 2003, when vandals desecrated the graves of British soldiers who died in France during World War I. Graffiti, including "Dig up your rubbish, it's contaminating our soil" was painted on gravestones and around the British military cemetery in Etapales, near Calais. Although no Americans were buried in that cemetery, the incident fueled anti-French sentiment in the U.S.

The Lusitania was sunk because it was running arms and munitions to Europe. The US government had been supporting and funding it's European allies for years - so the US contribution was far from "small". The US Government knew that the public outcry over the tragic loss of life from sinking the Lusitania (or any passenger liner being used to ferry munitions, equipment, or gold) would catapult the US into direct conflict with the Germans. The German Embassy in the US issued a very direct statement regarding the possibility of the RMS Lusitania, or any vessel flying the flag of Britain or it's allies of being sunk.

So, the Lusitania was smuggling arms, munitions, and supplies for the US to it's British allies, unbeknownst to the public, and therefore committing an act of covert war against Germany.

This is a fairly accurate assessment. Except the millions of dollars in financial and material support lent to the allies up to and through the involvement of the US in the European theater. Taking that as an aside, the impact on the European theater by US troops and combined allied forces would be felt by no later than April of 1943, when American and British troops landed and forced the Germans and Italian fascists out of Sicily. Within 2 months, Italy had been freed, the Italians surrendered, and the Germans were in a fighting retreat. On June 6, 1944, also known as D-Day, America had a DIRECT impact on the freeing of the French from German occupation. If you argue otherwise, you show your ignorance.

I will not argue the point of America becoming involved in any conflict, outside of the Revolutionary War, or the War of 1812 for anything but the interests of those in power. However, there is no moral debt amongst allies. America, however, has been international mercenaries since the onset of WWI. Our allies, and enemies, have racked up considerable debt and reparation bills, owed to the American people, for our involvement in their conflicts.

There are already laws ON THE BOOKS that deal specifically with child pornography. There are GREY areas in any law, not disregarding legal precedents or rulings set. In fact, legal precedents are what clarify and focus how the legal system deals with those very laws. Censorship on top of the already strict laws is ridiculous, and power grabbing, to say the least. Welcome to Fascism. THE PRINCIPLES OF THE APPLICATION OF LAW ON THE BOOKS HAVE NOT ALTERED ONE IOTA TO MY KNOWLEDGE. This is legal censorship, and it is so broadly defined as to be inclusive of any website or individual who does not toe the line as defined by the powers that be. While this may or may not be the norm in Australia, it is not the NORM in the US or France. It, is, however, rapidly approaching this point internationally.

I am glad to see you agree that this is a broad based expansion of censorship against free speech. If you, or any layman, can see the potential for abuse, yet sit idly by and allow it to pass, then you and all those who allow it are as complicit as those who would place these laws on us in the first place. Again, Anti-child Pornagraphy laws exist and have existed for a very long time. This is an expansion on those laws to now include anything that a government or the powers that be deems as terrorist.

When a citizen fears it's government, that is tyranny. When a government fears its citizens, that is democracy!

 

Chell,
When you're feeling bored, I'll bet you take a stroll through the bull's pasture wearing bright red trousers, don't you?

 

The French did play a huge role in the American independance. Also with the world wars it would be hard to say what would happen if any countries happened to not be combatants. I beleive that most of Europe would be speaking Russian if we did not get involved. With the way the world wars played out, it seemed the allies needed each other one way or another. Between the lend lease act, sharing technology and other resources, I dont beleive we could affrod to have anyone sit out that was involved. Hopefully history doesnt repeat...

 

Chello,
We could all sit here until doomsday (That's in December, Right?) debating the causes and justifications of each and every war. I am a perky (annoyingly so) person by nature. I try never to bash an entire country (With the exception of England. Being of Scotts, Scott-Irish, and Irish decent it is a genetic requirement.). I dislike vitriol in general. I find it counter productive. However, I cannot let this one go without comment.

No country truly enters a war out of debt or gratitude. This includes America, France, and Australia. They all have something to gain; be it freedom, honor, land, or money. For many years American's have listened to cries from overseas of one atrocity or another. When the world cried "we have to do something", the onus fell to the American military. Granted, it was for many years the most equiped to do so. Then we get to hear the resounding cries of "America is a bully nation". So we ask for a coallition. When seven countries or more say we are going to do this, it really frosts my cookies that America still gets the blame. I for one would also like to see the leaders of other countries grow a spine and say no "when the USA comes begging (cap in hand or cudgel in hand) for candidates for a coalition of "the willing". Perhaps, they could also add "That's okay, we got this one."

Now that I have vented a little, I have to add that the redundancy of the laws are ridicuulous. It is a waste of resources and an attempt to hide the fact that said countries are failing to enforce the laws already on the books. It is like writting a new law against theft for every new item stolen.

 

Chell no disparagement of aussie troops meant in any way. Tough bastids and well trained . Knew how to get it done down at unit level. But won't back off my earlier post.Whatever people think of us these days we have saved a large amount of bacon and still do when it's needed. Now me personally I'm ready to bring our men and women home and let the rest of the world have at it. Use their young people, their money, and their tech for a change .My choice of "still" in my post may have been a poor choice but my perspective of whose hat is in whose hand is different.But I did learn some new words so my day ain't a total loss!

 

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"......James Bond......

 

For any country that thinks the USA is overstepping their bounds, I propose this. Send back any and all aid (monetary or otherwise), pay restitution to the many families who have lost loved ones making sure you live free, end charities that get funneled to or through your country from the US, immediately pass legislation declaring you no longer will accept any military assistance in any form from the US and finally, pressure your allies that think we are overstepping our bounds to do the same.
It always amazes me how people the world over thinks it's okay to question us or our motives but have absolutely no problem at all accepting money, food, and military power from us. Of all the land liberated throughout WWI and WWII by the US, how much of it was KEPT by the US? About enough to set up some bases and enough to bury our dead!!! If how we do business is unacceptable to others, they should put up or shut up, and take a stand. I know I would LOVE to see more of what is ours stay here to help our own instead of being the world's hand out champ and giving it out to keep "friends".

 

I walk the line

I have a wardrobe of many colours...not all of them pinko! or rainbow! ; )

I don't just walk along electric fencing, I walk straddling electric fencing....my testicles are rarely far...at least on this website from a high voltage, low amperage jolt. Sometimes an enraged bull will distract me into making accidental contact...the jolt just improves my high jumping performance! ; )

 

Not only that but you are a cheeky bugger. You are good for playing devils advocate. You would be missed if you were not here. Cheers mate!

 

By American standards, Australia is a socialist paradise with Free medical care, with subsidised pharmeceuticals (conditions apply), abortion on demand(conditions apply)income support for the unemployed and unemployable, subsidised childcare and tertiary education, and (generally) free public education to completion of senior highschool (K-12).

Tom Friedman had an interesting post on Australian politics from an American perspective in the NY Times today. He claims New Zealand and Australia is where the moderate Republicans are hiding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/o...?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120328

Actually, most of my social views are absolutely pinko by conservative American standards. For one, I don't get why universal police protection, fire protection, and education are labeled "Public"; but universal health care is labeled "socialized." Death from cancer results in a death just as real as death from crime or fire. It also results in insurance companies and health care organizations lining their pockets at the expense of the afflicted. That just seems wrong to me. Getting sick should not result in bankruptcy and ruin.

Americans are still struggling to free themselves from the ignorance of McCarthyism, and the self imposed mental imprisonment of labels. Anything that you wish to demonize can be slapped with the label of "socialism" or "communism", and we must attack it. The pharmaceutical and medical care lobbies have conducted a very effective smear campaign against universal health care, and most Americans, who otherwise consider themselves free-thinkers, are buying into it hook, line, and sinker.
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Your point is taken, but the reality is that the Persian civilisation did have some things worth valuing, and indeed Persian influences undoubtedly have had been absorbed into most mediterranian cultures, ancient Greek included. The same holds true with France. I suspect that it is the rejection of American cuisine by the French, that has probably caused the greatest actual offence.

I agree with your point about the Persians, and it is a shame that most westerners still view the Persian Empire through the bias of Greek-centric writers. The Greeks used the Persians as their foil, much as Americans use the French as their foil today.

Many Americans have utter disdain for the French, even though they have never visited France, or met a French citizen, or are even aware of the historical irritants that have occurred between our two countries. (You've got to admit though that the missile landing outside of the French embassy in Tripoli, after the French government denied overflight permission to the F-111s in 1986 was funny, in a twisted sort of way.)

I think every nation needs such a foil, from a psychological perspective. How are we to measure our own utter superb-ness, if we don't have someone, whom we consider less superb, to compare ourselves to? One day, when our world's nations have come together in unity, we'll have to search the galaxy for another species to demonize. We can point at them and say, "They're GREEN for God's sake. Obviously, we're superior."
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