From the woodpile report 8/21/18

Nice idea, but alway good to know where you hit after the first shot with multiple targets.

Note: For those people new to shooting, your rifle usually does not hit the same spot when the barrel is hot.

 

Usually... or never, I was at the range sighting in my AR-15, and the guy next to me with the .308 stainless bull barrel about 8 feet long would fire one round, wait 5 minutes till it cooled, then would fire another round...

Me, I popped off magazine after magazine and was lucky to hit the target.

Rancher [/B

 

Problem is that the limitations are not in the weapon nor the sight, it is the "human" factor. Realistic training would probably require that you be sleeping at 2 AM, wake up to unexpected noise of breaking glass, grab rifle and slap mag of unknown ammo into it, run down stairs and out into rain in skivies and bare footed, in very poor light see something at other end of house trying to get generator out of back, see the flash of their weapon and lift your rifle and shoot back. Outside of the panic feeling, poor light conditions, adrenaline high, being out of breath, unknown range, not knowing who is shooting at you and what the legal problems may be if you do shoot them, think Zimmerman case, you are standing up, may still be moving or seeking cover, need to decide if to shoot, where to shoot, and do not have time to stop, get weapon into position, aim, take deep breath, let half out, and squeeze the trigger. Even in simulated training in a shooting house or on range, you are mentally prepared and physically ready to fire a known weapon with selected ammo at an expected target.
The effect that training has upon you is that you have the physical skills and muscle memory to accomplish the task. If you have not had some actual experience in a real life situation, it is all theory and you may or may not meet the challenge. If you are lucky enough to be in a selected firing position, with selected weapons, firing on an enemy approaching from a known direction and at a known distance in good light conditions, than the Appleseed project would be a valuable resource and all the training that is probably required. If not it is in real life a roll of the dice and you may or may not survive and all we can do in our training and equipment is attempt to load the dice in our favor. In my very limited experience, by the time I figured out what was happening, it was all over and the "professionals" had solved the problem by either shooting the bad guys, or the professional bad guys had fired and left.
My take would be like the old farmer telling his wife to heat the water as they had chickens to pluck. She said it is 2 o clock in the morning and I heard a shotgun, what happened? He said the fox was in the chicken house, I was in my nightshirt peeking thru the door and looking for the fox, when the old dog put his cold nose up against my bare a**, I pulled the trigger on both barrels of the old 12 gauge and we have a half dozen chickens to butcher.

 

In the Australian Army, during 'grouping' and 'applied marksmanship practices' two 'warming' rounds are fired into the butts before the scored /assessed practices commence.

The following .pdf file is linked for general historical interest, though many of the principles, are still relevant today.

https://www.army.gov.au/sites/g/files/net1846/f/training_musketry_and_rifle_exercises_1917_0.pdf

 

Excellent one chelloveck and still very relevant as to the rifle training. Interesting to see all the focus on cleaning with the use of corrosive primers and such. Despite all the problems, untrained cadets, corrosive ammo, excessive carrying of rifle in parades, drills, etc, a lot of the old rifles are in very good shape still after 100 years. Now if a certain country would stop the habit of destroying their excellent firearms during peacetime, they might not have to rearm and use inferior makeshift weapons until they do. Never saw an Owen sub machine gun, but worked with a Marine who had used one in Pacific and he loved it for jungle fighting, shot a lot of ammo quickly, did not jam, and while mag sticking straight up seems crazy, said it was very handy when hitting the dirt or crawling thru mud and crossing rivers. Like the Sten gun, has a lot of good and a lot of bad, but cheap, fires quickly, and it works.

 

The Owen Machine Carbine (OMC) was a SMG for its time...cheap and easy to mass produce, and very reliable, capable of working under the most austere conditions. It was also pretty primitive, particularly its 'safety' mechanism.





I trained with the OMC during my recruit and officer training....until it was withdrawn from service and replaced by the F1 SMG which I have also have fired.


F1 submachine gun - Wikipedia

 

Still impressive, soaking it in water, throwing it in a mud pile, etc. and it still shoots. Would not know if I would want to pull the trigger without making sure the bore was clear. Thank you for sharing, enjoyed the old newsreel footage very much.

 

The fully asleep to OhS***! training was used in a manner in my previous life. Boot camp, toward the end, after all the boat handling, fire suppression, first aid, and weapons training was completed, our tormentors would do such drills. Typically several times per week.
One night the fire alarms go off, and there's a tied up '378 on fire. Find and don your fire gear, including flame suits and respirators for some designated victims, pull the hoses, and put out the quite real oil fires. Then back to bed and try to sleep for a couple hours. Another favorite was SAR. Same scenario, but you jump on boats, get underway, and head for a specific grid to conduct a surface search. There was always something to actually find too. The most fun version though was the drug runner scenario - again onto the boats, but mount and arm weapons, Ma -Deuces and M-16s, head out at speed, and actually get to shoot up a target barge.
Even today it's not a good idea to rudely awaken me from a sound sleep....

 

The idea is to know your weapon of choice, the first shot or the clean, cold bore shot may or may not be different than subsequent shots. If you know where that first round is going (because you've shot it a bunch of different times and measured where it hits the target) then if you're in the bush and have to make your first shot, you'll know the correction to do so. It's something you should do every time you o to the range and then document it in your range book.

 

Many excellent points are mentioned in the above postings...

I would add that once you find a load that your gun of choice likes....
Stock up on that loading as well as using it as often as you can for all of your practice shooting.
For instance I have been shooting my Hawken Rifle copy now for over 20 years...
I use the same load for all of my shooting ...be it a card split at a rendezvous or for hunting....I know just how to aim to get that .530 round ball on the target from 20 odd yards to 200 yards.
( Or at least most of the time... I am not Daniel Boone or Kit Carson...even if I play them on weekends... )

By using the same load , means keeping the guess work down and there is less of actual thinking of just how am I going to make that shot and more of the doing the shot as if it were second nature , because of the amount of practice with the same load and same rifle..

Stick within your limits of shooting with your favorite gun and load...
I will indeed take a shot at 200 yards with my Hawken as long as it is a paper target , gong or such... I have made enough hits at that range to know that it isn't luck or chance...
But I stick to 100 yards or less for hunting....a clean , quick kill on a game animal is a bigger need , than my ego.
Andy

 

I like the 'Woodpile' and, unfortunately, I seldom read it as - well - there is so much to read and so little time. I have marked it on favorites bar hoping seeing it will cause me to peruse it more often.

 

The one shot cold barrel may work if you know what your spread is. One cold bore shot can be very different from another one. Silly in my view. Good rifles and good shots know where every shot goes and it goes to the same place every shot. I have won my fair share of matches, some do not allow sighters or warm up shots. Cold shot is same as hot shot or I would not win. Silly advice for silly people.