Garden security

Discussion in 'The Green Patch' started by Airtime, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    I'll try and make a few posts that are not political commentary.

    Post SHTF, we may by necessity be required to be more self-sustaining feeding ourselves. Threats to that ability to procure, grow, capture, raise and produce food is then a direct threat to one's survival. There has been ample discussion about defending yourself and castle from the 2 legged invaders, but 4 legged versions are also threats. So, what measures have folks taken to protect their gardens and livestock?

    A local farm store is closing and they have been clearancing stuff. I recently picked up a solar fence charger, some electric fence posts, insulators, a big roll of wire, ground stake, etc. Some of this stuff was 70% off! I have put it away on the shelf for potential future use. I have not had lots of problems with critters in the garden, but if my family's lives depended upon the garden, I figured I needed to be better prepared to protect it. This probably won't stop the 2 legged critters and some special considerations are needed for the white tail thief variety as well, but it's good for the little guys with the mask, their cousins with the white stripe down their back and some other little garden thieves.
    So how are others protecting their sources of food? What other protections should we be considering?

    Tully Mars, GOG, Sgt Nambu and 6 others like this.
  2. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

  3. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++


    Arizona Javelinas (pronounced Have-a-LEEN-uhz)
    most irritating beast in the world and mean. They are like feral hogs, (but much smaller) breed year round and keeping them out of the garden is a pita. I went to raised beds for this reason and fencing. They come in at night and are very distructinve. Eat anything that isn't protected.

    Raised beds and fencing for me. I had to double wire the gates. I may try the electric fence approach we seem to have more every year and the neighbors feed them inadvertantly with their annual flowers. They are a prolific peccari

    I still go back to no garden is invisible so if you want to hide your garden from 2 legged preditors, different strategy
  4. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Nice targets you've got there @Ganado... Surely there must be someone with excess 5.56X45 that could help with your walking bacon issue... o_O

    Nice work around with fencing and raised beds. My recent pest is a 300# black bear that had developed a taste for the rodent bait in my ABS plastic bait boxes...
    Tully Mars, Ura-Ki, Ganado and 3 others like this.
  5. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Luckily, we don't have bear problems but I was told they were in our area not so many years ago. Nor do we have wild rabbits (thank goodness) as think the local dogs and coyotes keep them down. We do get the occasional elk and moose which there is absolutely nothing you can do about, in fact, the lady down the road woke up to find a moose in her self-standing swimming pool last summer. It made the papers. When the reporter ask her what she did about it her reply was "What the hell do you think I did about it? I watched him swim!"

    We do have deer problem and we were using that plastic deer fencing which worked well for about 2 seasons until somebody got hungry and pushed it down and ate all the leaves off one of the little apple trees. So, 6 foot high metal fence using T-Posts except for the doorways which I sunk 4x4s. We also put a 3 foot high metal fence (squares are <1 inch) around the bottom to keep out squirrels and smaller critters. But, other than fencing, we do nothing else...

    EDIT: Ah! I forgot turkeys. These guys can be very destructive. The neighbor's dog helps us chase them off but they usually come back. Come to find out the wife was feeding the deer during the Spring time (which I didn't know about) and the Turkeys knew there were free eats if they could/would scare off the deer. She stopped feeding and the turkeys stopped coming around. She only feeds the deer during winter time now which is when they need the extra feed anyway.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  6. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I have a neighbor up the road that put electric fence around his chicken yard. It deterred the bear, it did not like getting shocked.

    I put 5 ft fence around my raised beds then put 6 because 5 foot was not enough. I also learned the hard way to keep the corn away from the edges. I learned to plant squash near the edge because if it leaved through the fence the elk didn't bother them.
    Yard Dart, Ura-Ki, chelloveck and 3 others like this.
  7. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Critters see the same colour / pattern . You electric fence around chicken yard or an area & then use the same pattern / wire & they will not cross once taught .. Now learn if a 1000# bull gets a shock & you have a fence of wire string , you have a BULLDOZER pulling the fence apart .
  8. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    We learned the hard way with Bear's, if it aint fully bear proof, it can get dug up or pushed aside easily enough that you wonder if any thing can stop them! I have way too much acreage that I need Bear proof, so I sacrificed a small part of my property in order to keep my new "Friend" from helping him self to the more valuable edibles! So now I have to re think my anti Bear fencing in order to stop him and others from invading! I have a No Kill philosophy with the apex predators, so I will not even consider that unless it becomes a dire threat to life and limb. Thankfully I have no other animals that cause much in the way of problems, other then small pests that are more of a nuance then any thing else! I think we have a pair of Fox dug in some place under the back deck, but so far they haven't caused us any trouble! YET!
    Motomom34, chelloveck and Dunerunner like this.
  9. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    [​IMG]This is my berry thief and general security officer Mr. Bol'shaya ( Russian for Ursa, Wife named him!!!) who keeps the other predators and pests away, why I don't mind him around as long as he stays out of troubles!
    Yard Dart, Motomom34 and azrancher like this.
  10. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    A little off topic, but I REALLY hate the articles that you see in all the survivalist rags about A) how to always have a fire in your pocket - ie: soak bail twine in paraffin, leaving out how you will be able to light this, oh, that's right, with the road flare you also happen to have in your pocket. B) How to always have food in/after an emergency - ie: plant a garden and wait two three MONTHS, not weeks, to have edible food, provided of course you don't get blight, flood, drought, bugs, vermin, etc., etc., none of which is mentioned.

    OK, on topic. There is NO WAY you can guarantee you can keep garden/cache/barn/meat shed safe, no matter what that ASG article said. One guy put an electric fence around his meat shed. This keep the black bears away, but one big old grizzly walked up and got his nose bit. He sat down, looked that fence up and down, got up, smacked the fence down, top to bottom, walked in and carried away about half a moose, then came back and got the rest.

    Buffalo are also not going to let a electric fence slow them down if they think the grass is greener on the other side either. A good friend of mine had a hobby herd of buffalo and if they decided they wanted to walk through (or jump, they can jump like deer) that six foot fence they did. He finally got rid of them as too much trouble. When Yellowstone tried to move buffalo, they figured they would use cattle cars. That was fine until the first old bull walked up the ramp, saw a wall blocking his way, hooked his horns under it and ripped the wall out, then walked out the other side of the cattle car and back to his pasture.

    The point is you can try, and you might even keep some of the critters out, but if something big enough, tough enough or hungry enough thinks it wants what you have (think Nagen in Motomom's thread) there is darn little you can do about it. You might be able to kill it/them (anyone say "swarm of locus"?) but it is never a sure thing.
  11. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    no freaking permit and they are classified as big game....or I would have shot several hundred. We are over run with those lil suckers!

    Possible Health Concerns
    - Javelina can catch rabies, although they do not generally carry it without symptoms. Symptoms of rabies can include foaming at the mouth; erratic, hyperactive behavior; and/or fearful, paralyzed and lethargic behavior. If you see any animal with rabies symptoms, call 911 or your local Arizona Game and Fish Department office right away.

    Anyone bitten by a javelina must immediately seek medical attention from a qualified health care provider. Whenever possible, the animal should be captured or killed and sent to a laboratory for rabies testing.

    Distemper - Javelina are known to catch distemper, which can be transmitted to pets. Distemper is a viral disease that consists of fever, loss of appetite, coughing, and eye and nose discharge.

    Salmonella - Salmonella or other bacteria that commonly cause food poisoning sometimes take a toll on javelina herds. Symptoms include diarrhea, inability to walk, staying close to a water source, and death.

    Laws and Policies
    • The department will sometimes remove javelina that are causing extensive property damage or have become aggressive toward humans. However, this is a last resort, and measures must be taken to remove attractants to prevent problems from recurring.
    • Javelina are classified as a big game species. It is unlawful to injure or kill game animals, even if they are causing a problem, unless certain rigorous provisions under the law have been met. See Arizona Game and Fish Department Hunting Regulations.
    • It is unlawful to trap javelina.
    • State law prohibits firing a gun within a quarter-mile of an occupied residence or building without the permission of the owner.
    • Check your local city ordinances, but most cities ban shooting firearms within city limits. Some cities ban the use of slingshots, BB guns, air guns, or bows.
    • Refer to ARS-17-239 on wildlife depredation and Arizona Game and Fish Department Hunting Regulations for more information.
  12. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Reading this thread about bears and critter invasions, it dawned on me that I have not heard anything about what people do to protect their greenhouses. I would think a greenhouse would be vulnerable to animal invasions. I know a bear can rip into a tuff shed, and I know that bunnies burrow under fences to get to stuff. So how would one protect a greenhouse?
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    The trick to dealing with Bears, is really simple to understand... Bears have really simple "Firmware"..... they Hunt not for Food, they eat food, they sleep, and they mate... There are a few SubRoutines that are Interupt Driven, like Attack, Run away, and Identify Unknown Sensory Input. Bears have fair memories, and when the find Food, they will return to that same place, and then invoke the Hunt for Food Routine. SO, if your garden is a Food Source, what you need to do is teach the Bear, a different Place, to find tastier Food, OR Kill the Bear... around here we teach teach them " Berries" until the Samon Start Running... then they stay near the Salmon creeks.... No Garbage, or Human Food smells are allowed to to build up. We chase the wondering Bears off, with our Dogs, from around the HomeStead, but never allow the Dogs to chase ANYTHING, outside the Homestead. After a couple of generations of bears, we have very little trouble with them...
    Dont, Mountainman, Ura-Ki and 4 others like this.
  14. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    The garden threat around here can be controlled for the most part with a solar powered electric fence (like @Airtime mentioned) live traps and a .22 and or pellet gun. What gets caught in a live trap around here may not be on the top of my list for eating, but chances are that one could if needed.
    Motomom34 and Ura-Ki like this.
  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I have a Layered defense around the garden, Two fences and the dogs as a warning pretty much keep my big boy away, I also shoot a 12 gauge off over him if he gets too close, but have only had to do that one time. SO far, he is only intrested in the fruits and berries and the bee's nests he has found way down near the corner of the property, so I just leave him be! Just have to secure the side between my place and the neighbors as well as the second meadow right below the house, and all should be fine!
    Motomom34 and Tully Mars like this.
  16. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    As for the Peccary, an Airsoft gun is made fire a small pellet - not a BB.
    You might want to look at getting one of the compressed gas 'rifles' - I don't have cats, squirrels or the like bother my plants. If they try to have lunch at my expense, their backside hurts. Very quiet to shoot.

    And yes, I have been shot with these.
    Ganado likes this.
  17. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Bears crap / shit to mark THERE AREA , they come back on their scat left ,,they hate loud , and IF you have firecrackers (as I do , & use a large tomato juice (1 gal) & light one & drop in a can & let it blow off , No fire from a firecracker since it's the the can & then you point to the bear & the bear/dog thinks bad shot.then i move up to a paint gun & the into Lead dispenser
    Motomom34 and Ura-Ki like this.
  18. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    thanks @DKR, have BB gun but never thought about a compresed air rifle I will look into it... suggestion much appreciated!

    they don't like loud noises, and are very skittish, so i had cow bells on rope for a while, it only goes so far. =) may try sleigh bells next
  19. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Ganado likes this.
  20. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    rats its out of stock but that is a great site. Thanks!
  1. Ganado
  2. duane
  3. HK_User
  4. Motomom34
  5. Motomom34
  6. kckndrgn
  7. Asia-Off-Grid
  8. Motomom34
  9. BelBol
  10. Bishop
  11. Yard Dart
  12. Asia-Off-Grid
  13. Yard Dart
  14. DKR
  15. Seacowboys
  16. oil pan 4
  17. Thunder5Ranch
  18. Eagle's Nest
  19. Oltymer
  20. arleigh
survivalmonkey SSL seal warrant canary