Getting new Rifle and have 600 to spend.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Kingfish, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    @Kingfish That's a great optic, I'm sold on prismatic scopes like that for close range. I use a 1x Vortex spitfire, also prismatic, on my AR's and love it. Unlike standard red dots and holographic scopes I see a nice crisp image instead of a blur due to my astigmatism. Great scope for us old bastiges. I use the 1x so I can sight with both eyes open. My AO is mostly woodlands jungle so I like the wider field of view that 1x gives me. I still have BUIS just in case the glass breaks, and I wouldn't be afraid of inexpensive polymer ones like the MagPul if cost was an issue.

    For longer distances I have an AR-10 with a crisp 3x9 scope that also has a red dot in the middle. It's amazing how much quicker that little cue is for target acquisition.

    The green tip ammo is M855/SS109. It's better for penetration if you are facing folks with body armor, but won't defeat any designed for more than pistols. It's the same stuff the BATF unsuccessfully tried to outlaw months back. Still available, and not much more than XM193. Get it now, though, because I suspect an executive order will occur before long and the resulting panic will make it scarce and expensive.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  2. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I am buying up lots of ammo right now. I had the Burris before and love it out to 100/150 yards. I also shoot with both eyes open when on the move with it. Drop the reticle on target and squeeze. Its like lazer. Wicked optic for defense. I have a Thompson center Icon in 30-06 for those long range defense shots. 3 by 9 by 40 Leupold dimension 2x . Awesome long range scope. My wife also has a long range 30-06 , Tika hunter with the same scope. The AR-15 for me will be my choice when patrolling my area. My molle vest has 6 pouches for 30 round mags and with one in the rifle gives me 210 rounds plus handgun with 20 rounds and my Gerber. Ill most likely have the bulk of my ammo in 5.56 55 grain ball unless this rifle refuses to shoot it.
    HK_User and 3M-TA3 like this.
  3. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    @Kingfish I'd say you are pretty squared away which doesn't surprise me. BTW it's safe to shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around. The only thing you might consider changing on your rifle, and then only if you want nearly complete flash suppression is to swap out your birdcage for a Smith Vortex. Primary Arms sells them for $52 which is way under other sellers.

  4. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    I shoot with bifoclas and shoot open sites just fine. I have learned how to aim for the middle of the blurry spot :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
    oldawg likes this.
  5. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Ran across a link liast night where a guy actually tested the .223/5.56 thing. Basically, it's bunk. I'll try and find it if I can.
  6. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Okay I asked and found out the Oracle comes with a 1 x 9 twist . It should If I have my bearing right shoot the 55 and 62 grain bullets just fine. 16 inch barrel 1x9 twist.

    5.56 ORACLE
  7. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    According to Shilen, .224" with a 1:9 is good up to 70gr.

    .224" is the diameter of the bullet, .223 is the rifling.
  8. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I finished my first round of Ammo buying both local and online. I ended up with 600 rounds of Federal American Eagle 5.56 55 grain ball, 200 rounds of 62 grain Winchester green tip and 500 rounds of PMC .223 . I also got 6 Pmags in 30 round and one Promag in 5 round. Im now broke ha ha ha ha . I got the pmc for 6.29 a box on sale at Cabelas and the Winchester 62 grain green tip for 8 bucks a box local. The American Eagle was a Bit higher then the .223 but not too bad. So I got 1300 rounds. Now to get the optics. This is my second Ar-15 I wish I still had the first one. That gun was like an extension of my hand. Point and shoot. I hope this one is close to the last one.
  9. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    The DPMS is a good solid rifle. i have one that is my GoTo CQB tack driver with a Aimpoint Comp M2 2mil reddot with the ARMS BUIS. Love the thing. I have never had a FTF FTE with it and have probably 7K through it.

    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
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  10. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Sounds like a good haul.

    Typically the AE 5,56 55gr and PMC will be more accurate than the M855/SS109. Ball ammo is not M193.

    The ball ammo and M193 have 2 components, the lead core and the jacket. Therefore, most of the mass is centered. The worst case would be a lack of concentricity at the edges, voids in the lead or imperfect shape of the core and or jacket any of which impacts balance.
    The M855/SS109 has 3 components, a steel core near the tip, lead and the jacket. Effectively the mass, as lead is heavier than steel, is moved away from the center of the projectile; this magnifies the effect of any imbalance.

    Lotsa words for it is easier to balance 2 components than 3.

    However, it depends on what your rifle likes best
  11. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    The 62 grain is M855. Green tip for Light Armor. Good for close range on Pistol grade body armor?
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    As it is a crap shoot, don't shoot at the armor. Always, take what you're given.

    If it is armor and you can't see it; then, it is Type IIA and either M193 or M855 will penetrate it.

    As long as the speed of M193 or M855 is greater than 2200 FPS; either will penetrate Type IIIA. Damage after they penetrate is a coin flip.
    Key point, range has nothing to do with it and FPS has everything to do with it. The ability of of the M193 or M855 dependent on velocity as is their penetration of body armor.

    Even Type IV is only required to stop one hit at its specification. Ceramic plates shatter after that hit.
  13. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Been in the armor game for a LONG time. Thats what the AD = Armor Dude means ;)

    Level 4 MIL Spec. 3 shots: 1 in the center, 1, 1 inch from the edge and one random in the plate.

    V50 50% get stopped, 50% get through... V0 everything get stopped...
    everything is @muzzle many times are you standing in front of the muzzle.....

    Then there is Back Face Deformation. The plate with the soft armor pack you cant have over 42 mm of Back Face deformation. Stop all rounds and exceed BF and you fail.

    If you expect body armor shoot for the pevlic girdle or head.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
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  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    You are correct and I know.
    As I said "don't shoot at the armor. Always, take what you're given." Joints must articulate and slit vision went out in the medieval ages. Potentially a head shot could possibly deflect. Pelvic girdle is sweet as it puts them down and there are veins and arteries in the area.
    So why would anyone aim at a small plate when there is so much more available?

    Although they say a 30 cal black tip will not penetrate level IVA; a plain old 30-06 soft point in the arm or leg will neutralize a target.
    It is similar to the North Hollywood bank robbery. It ended when they shot where the armor wasn't. Body armor is to prevent soldier from being killed. Wounded with a medic followed by a Medevac means he lives. That being said a bullet to anything else means one's day is done.

    You're an armorer type and I was an end user and applications type.
    AD1 likes this.
  15. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Yes I am aware of how and where to shoot around Armor. Most body armor that civilians have is thick and bulky. Groin shots right above the Penis area just left and just right hit Femoral arteries. Also side angles into the armpit are pretty lethal. I only picked up 200 green tip . I might get some more but still have to get my Burris and Im getting nervous right now. The ammo has shipped and It cant get here fast enough. I need some range time with this rifle. at least a good day.
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  16. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have to say power point 150 grain 30-06 will pretty much remove an arm or leg. The wound channel on my last deer was so severe I lost an entire front shoulder due to it being turned into blood shot mush and bone meal. Our 30-06 rifles are our long range one shot one kill guns. The AR is my patrol rifle. We have Shotguns for the close areas around the house. Hand guns for inside and to fight our way to a long gun. But Im pretty happy with the ammo and magazine I got. Ill be looking to pick up a little at a time now for practice. I have to sell my Ruger .44 magnum now to pay for the Optics. Anyone in Michigan looking ? .44 magnum lever action carbine Ruger model 96 with 122 rounds of ammo. asking 600 for the rifle with Tasco Bantam scope and case.
    Gopherman, Yard Dart, kellory and 2 others like this.
  17. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    If I was coming closer to MI I would probably buy that KF. Unfortunately the roads up that way are just too "slickery" this time of year.
  18. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

  19. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have a guy coming after it today. He still has to look it over and such but Im pretty sure he will buy it. He is from southern Michigan and they just started allowing rifles chambered in pistol cartridges. All of southern Michigan is shotgun only for deer. There was some snow south of us last night but our roads are dry here.
    3M-TA3 and BTPost like this.
  20. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Gone gone gone !!!! Ill have my new Burris on its way first thing monday morning. And the dudes wife has a new .44 deer rifle for Christmas awesome :) Now I feel like I got everything I need. Time for cpl classes next.
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