SEE if you still "think" they are such wonderful manstoppers. I was AGHAST at how poorly .45 ball, lrn, swc's and 230 gr jhp's did! Sheesh. I was such a .45 fan that I spent BIG money having Hensley and Gibbs make me a 230 gr version of their noted #68 gr swc mold! There's plenty of dillos, possums, nutria, coons, chucks, jacks, alleycats, etc, to use for such research. you will be VERY upset at all the lies you've been told!