Going to be an interesting week.

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by melbo, Oct 28, 2007.


  1. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    USD below 77.
    Gold at $790
    Merrel Lynch about to go belly up choking of valueless derivatives that have no market. CEO just left.

    Some smart guys have predicted that the USD will drop slower to 72 and then free-fall ala Argentina after that.
     
  2. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    YUP. That is what I am hearing, too. 72 then the next support is around 44. For those of you who are new to math, that is a 39% drop in the value of the dollar. At this rate it is going to cost us $1.50 to buy a Canadian dollar!
     
  3. <exile>

    <exile> Padawan Learner

    Did you see Jim Sinclair's Story of the Week released on October 27th?
     
  4. tsiemens

    tsiemens Monkey+++

    This is a great benefit at least short term to us Canadians, retail prices are dropping like boulders....
     
  5. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    US buck is now 93 cents to the Canadian dollar.

    Good investment if you have any money sitting on a CD is AAV, Canadian oil and gas trust that pays 14-15 cents/share per month on a 12.50ish ( last week ) share price.....that's about 1.70/yr on a 12.50 investment or nearly 14%...and will rise as the Canadian dollar to the US dollar rises....unlike a CD.
     
  6. Ardent Listener

    Ardent Listener Monkey+++

    I bet they are. I wonder if we will stop seeing magazine with prices on their covers such as $4.95 in U.S., $5.95 Canada.[winkthumb]
     
  7. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Just another day in finance chaos.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial]Link: http://www.jsmineset.com/

    [/FONT]
     
  8. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I think you should all read this:
    http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=195780

    We are melting down and the smart people are getting out of paper money. If you are holding any paper wealth/ or digital... Maybe you want buy some gold before it's $1680 an oz


    http://goldismoney.info/forums/showpost.php?p=809565&postcount=13
    [alien]
     
  9. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Looks pretty bad if he is right...

    Heck it looks pretty bad if he is only partly right...[booze]

    I wonder how many people actually care and take the time to educate themselves about this stuff at this point... probably not enough...

    I feel bad for the folks that are too busy with small kids, working 2 jobs, trying to make ends meet and happy to just have a few minutes a day to regain their sanity and relax...

    But others that have the time, the intelligence, the finances and the access... well... I think they should know better... sorry but they won't get much sympathy from me... actually none... (nah... maybe a little)

    When or if this stuff becomes a full blown reality... all my sympathy and what little help I can offer will go those who had very little spare time and money and were just trying to take care of their families and make through the day...

    Guess I'm a "meanie"....[LMAO]
     
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    here here
     
  11. Nomad 2nd

    Nomad 2nd Monkey+++

    I'm more of a silver bug myself...
     
  12. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    $50 silver in 2008[beer]
     
  13. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Thanks... just needed to get that off my chest...

    Just got zero tolerance for the "cramer" types that start crying when the "game" doesn't go their way...

    YouTube- Cramer: Bernanke, Wake Up

    Too bad so sad... sucks to be you[LMAO]
     
  14. Jonas Parker

    Jonas Parker Hooligan

    A very good read from Jim Sinclair. I've been in this mode for a couple of years now and I firmly believe that this country will take a shot like the Great Depression of 1929 (and I sure hope I'm wrong)! Without getting into the subject too deeply (mostly because I still don't quite understand it), "investing" in derivatives seems like "investing" in a win ticket on #3 in the third race at Belmont. When major banks (like Citicorp) and brokerage houses (like Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch) start to fall, the rest of the economy will come down like a house of cards. There will be no "winners" in this scenario, only varying degrees of losers. The families with food, supplies, barter-able skills, and owing little, if any, secured debt will be in the best shape. I think Social Security and Medicare are safe for a while, if only for political reasons, but our country's economic future doesn't look good at all.
     
  15. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    The really really scary thing about the largest banks and investment houses losses is that they broker their portfolios to other smaller banks, investment firms and houses in what is easiest to understand as "participations"... in other words they spread the risk... and get others to buy into their deals and schemes.... well when they start reporting losses and CEOs lose their jobs (but get mega million separation packages )... you have to know that it has a trickle down effect... that is not being reported or even considered by the common folks... wouldn't want to scare the masses... but check your 401k and other retirement funds tied to the markets... I'll bet most folks are seeing a "squeeze" and falling values... these financial "wizards" are just that... when the lights go on and the smoke and mirrors are removed... we'll all see that it was all just an "illusion" and while it may have been pretty entertaining while it lasted... the "wizards" are no more than master manipulators at getting your mind to believe what your eyes and ears are telling you....
    I'll bet the "pucker" factor is up in all the board rooms... these directors have individual and personal liability for prudent oversight... I've heard some directors are trying like crazy to get off the boards they are on.... sorry ... too late..... sucks to be you....
    Everyone is going into "CYA" mode... including the regulators... just wait till the investors start filing class action lawsuits... those babyboomers aren't going to be too happy when they realize their bloated nest eggs have been deflated... and that it was all just smoke and mirrors....
    Enjoy the show ???.... sooner or later... the lights come back on and its back to reality...

    JMHO....[beer]
     
  16. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN0419537820071104
    CIBC analyst got death threats on Citigroup: report

    Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:29pm EST
    NEW YORK (Reuters) - The analyst whose downgrade of Citigroup Inc sparked a broad stock market sell-off on Thursday said she has received several death threats stemming from her research, the Times of London said.
    Meredith Whitney of CIBC World Markets Inc late Wednesday downgraded Citigroup to "sector underperformer," saying the largest U.S. bank by assets might need to raise more than $30 billion of capital and cut its dividend.
    Her downgrade triggered a 6.9 percent drop in Citigroup's shares on Thursday, leading to declines of 362 points in the Dow Jones industrial average and 2.6 percent in the Standard & Poor's 500, the biggest drop since August.
    It also led to renewed calls for Citigroup Chief Executive Charles Prince to step down.
    "People are scared to be negative, especially when a company has such a wide holding," Whitney told the Times of London in an article published Saturday.
    "Clients are not pleased with my call and I have had several death threats," she continued. "But it was the most straightforward call I've made in my career and I am surprised my peer analysts have been resistant. It's so straightforward, it's indisputable."
    Whitney did not immediately return requests for comment on Sunday. In 2005 she married John "Bradshaw" Layfield, a former World Wrestling Entertainment champion. CIBC World Markets is part of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.
    Prince is expected to resign later Sunday at an emergency meeting of Citigroup's board of directors, the Wall Street Journal and New York Times said.
    His departure would follow significant losses at the bank from exposure to bad loans, mortgages and other debt. Citigroup's market value has fallen below that of Bank of America Corp, the second-largest U.S. bank by assets.
    (Reporting by Jonathan Stempel)
     
  17. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Here's some interesting information... if you're interested...

    Who's got a stake in Citi ?

    See anyone you know?... maybe your 401k?... maybe your bank?... maybe your broker?... maybe someone you or your employer is relying on?...

    These guys all have an interest in keeping this "show" going...

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=C

    Major Holders

    <TABLE class=yfnc_modtitle1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SMALL>BREAKDOWN</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TD noWrap height=2><SPACER type="block" height="2" width="1" /></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=yfnc_datamodoutline1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yfnc_datamodlabel1>% of Shares Held by All Insider and 5% Owners: </TD><TD class=yfnc_datamoddata1 align=right>1%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_datamodlabel1>% of Shares Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners: </TD><TD class=yfnc_datamoddata1 align=right>61%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_datamodlabel1>% of Float Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners: </TD><TD class=yfnc_datamoddata1 align=right>61%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_datamodlabel1>Number of Institutions Holding Shares: </TD><TD class=yfnc_datamoddata1 align=right>1092</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <TABLE class=yfnc_modtitle1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SMALL>MAJOR DIRECT HOLDERS (FORMS 3 & 4)</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap height=2><SPACER type="block" height="2" width="1" /></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=yfnc_tableout1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle width="40%">Holder</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Shares</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Reported</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>WEILL SANFORD I</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>16,518,365</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>1-Apr-06</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>MAHERAS THOMAS G</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>2,440,092</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>13-Jul-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>PRINCE CHARLES</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>1,612,732</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>13-Jul-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>DRUSKIN ROBERT</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>1,123,473</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>13-Jul-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>RHODES WILLIAM R</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>811,220</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=middle>13-Jul-07</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <TABLE class=yfnc_modtitle1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SMALL>TOP INSTITUTIONAL HOLDERS</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap height=2><SPACER type="block" height="2" width="1" /></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=yfnc_tableout1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle width="40%">Holder</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Shares</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 noWrap align=middle>% Out</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Value*</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Reported</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>CAPITAL RESEARCH AND MANAGEMENT COMPANY</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>230,517,177</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>4.63</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$11,823,226,008</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>179,123,520</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>3.60</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$9,187,245,340</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>STATE STREET CORPORATION</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>150,346,292</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>3.02</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$7,711,261,316</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>AXA</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>144,848,238</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>2.91</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$7,429,266,127</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE)</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>139,606,101</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>2.81</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$7,160,396,920</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>104,426,206</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>2.10</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$5,356,020,105</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>FMR CORPORATION (FIDELITY MANAGEMENT & RESEARCH CORP)</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>87,306,811</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>1.76</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$4,477,966,336</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>MORGAN STANLEY</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>69,711,306</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>1.40</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$3,575,492,884</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>UBS GLOBAL ASSET MANAGEMENT (AMERICAS) INC</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>68,769,985</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>1.38</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$3,527,212,530</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>Mellon Financial Corporation</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>57,947,534</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>1.16</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$2,972,129,018</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <TABLE class=yfnc_modtitle1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SMALL>TOP MUTUAL FUND HOLDERS</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap height=2><SPACER type="block" height="2" width="1" /></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=yfnc_tableout1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle width="40%">Holder</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Shares</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>% Out</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Value*</TD><TD class=yfnc_tablehead1 align=middle>Reported</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>VANGUARD 500 INDEX FUND</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>46,678,587</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.94</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$2,394,144,727</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>WASHINGTON MUTUAL INVESTORS FUND</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>41,921,000</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.84</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$2,150,128,090</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>INVESTMENT COMPANY OF AMERICA</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>35,610,000</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.72</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,826,436,900</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>COLLEGE RETIREMENT EQUITIES FUND-STOCK ACCOUNT</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>32,899,484</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.66</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,687,414,534</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>INCOME FUND OF AMERICA INC</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>31,764,500</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.64</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,629,201,205</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>VANGUARD TOTAL STOCK MARKET INDEX FUND</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>28,874,442</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.58</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,480,970,130</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>VANGUARD INSTITUTIONAL INDEX FUND-INSTITUTIONAL INDEX FD</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>26,418,693</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.53</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,355,014,763</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Jun-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>VANGUARD/WINDSOR II</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>24,500,536</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.49</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,140,989,961</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>31-Jul-07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>SPDR TRUST SERIES 1</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>23,655,604</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.48</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,174,973,850</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Sep-06</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1>DODGE & COX STOCK FUND</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>23,280,300</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>.47</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>$1,086,491,601</TD><TD class=yfnc_tabledata1 align=right>30-Sep-07</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I hate salesmen. Therefore, with all the pitching that Citi has done, I've avoided that outfit, totally. Especially annoying credit card flyers in the mail twice a week.
     
  19. Jonas Parker

    Jonas Parker Hooligan

    Ah, the British Royal Family takes another hit from Alfred E Newman... er... Prince Charles...
     
  20. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    [​IMG]
     
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