Gun control really doesn't work.

Law abiding gun owners jump through all kinds of hoops already.

CPL training and background checks signed off by local sheriff/police department or local gun boards to get a concealed firearm license.

Form 4473 with NICS background check for both pistols and Rifle/Shotguns bought from a dealer.

In Michigan, all handguns are registered with the state police using Form RI-60.

If you want to purchase a Machinegun, SBR, SBS or Silencer you have to pay the federal government 200 dollars and wait while they conduct a through background check, sometimes up to 2 years before you can take possession of the aforementioned items that you already paid for.

Yes, there lots of hoops already.

Let's say we as a nation instituted a 30 day waiting period for all gun purchases and during that time the FBI conducted a background check. Let's say that cost the gun owner 1000 dollars for the check that was valid for 1 year without needing another check. During that time the potential gun owner needed to either obtain training on safe use of a firearm, safe storage of a firearm or show proof that they have had the training in the past x years.
If they failed the background check or failed to get trained .. they were denied the ability to purchase a gun.

I guarantee that we will still have people dying from firearms. Evil exists and you can't regulate it, you can't medicate it away, you can't pray it away nor can it be banned.
Evil will always be there. Just like, good people will always exist.

I'm pretty sure that neither of side of the gun control issue (won't call it debate as it should be rational versus emotional) are going to change their positions on guns.

The pro-gun and anti-gun people aren't going to agree on what steps should be taken.

Perhaps, just perhaps they may all agree that some people shouldn't own guns. And maybe that's where the discussion should be pointed .. but then that brings up the issue of profiling.

I still think that gun control requires going to the range on a regular basis.

 

The anti gun people will only agree on solutions that helped create the murder/rape crime capitals of this country.
Where only the police who are 16 minutes away and criminals who are everywhere are the only people who have guns.

 

The discussion is way more fun when it occurs in a family. At that point they should start talking about abortion legality, the correct religion or decriminalization of all drugs.

 

Okay I agree that people should be well versed on marksmanship, use of force and deadly force, and capable of using his or her normal ccw weapon in public without killing more innocent folks than evil doers. .... But should firearms owners be required to qualify with each and every of their guns? What about collector speculation pieces or family heirlooms? Who is going to certify all this paperwork and hold it on file. I have my own range, why should I have to go somewhere and pay range fees or memberships? How about I shoot their side mirrors off from more than 200 yards? Will that qualify me for that long gun? I could go on but I think I have made my point. More paper pushing bullshit isn't going to solve anything and will only creat a monster that will never die like the IRS

 

Tac, this was actually a paraphrase of a response I sent to one of my friends that is seriously fed up with people dying by being shot. My response isn't to propose a solution but to demonstrate that no matter what hoops one has to jump through, It won't work.

What I really wanted to say to him and his circle was:
I understand and can feel empathy for all the people, families and communities for their loss of love ones. But to attempt to berate me as a gun owner and shooting sports enthusiast in to feeling sad and depressed enough about that something that I may possess that could be used to commit a heinous crime to capitulate with their desire to have 'weapons of war' removed from the hands of civilians. Is basically attempting to accuse me and those like me as an unindicted co-conspirator in the murder of innocents thousands of miles away from me. And I kind of take exception to that. And by using those tactics, you further harden my resolve to reject your opinions and will make every effort to rebut your statements with facts and not the propaganda techniques (Ad hominem, ad nauseam, fear tactics, moral prejudice, demonizing, disinformation, ...etc). Seriously your trying all of them and at least they are not working on me nor those like me.

So, for each post you make, I will provide you to the best of my ability, the best information I know or can find to refute you or your friends 'Statements of Fact' (fallacy) with unemotional facts regarding gun ownership, crime, shooting sports, current gun laws, operations of firearms, construction of firearms, cyclic rates, capacities, accessories, ammunition types and projectile construction, ballistics in order for your circle to have a broader view of the issue at hand.

I will respect your opinions but will vociferously defend gun owners and their rights to keep and bear arms.

And yes, I might actually agree with you .. there really are some people that shouldn't own guns. And yes, it's sad that people have died. But no, I nor my friends didn't do it, and blaming us isn't going to make it nor you feel any better.

But I didn't say that or he'd probably unfriend me and just keep on with his tirade in an echo chamber and loose the off chance that something I might provide him and his friends just might actually cause them to pause and think that what they are hearing from others .. just might be untrue.

I might just post it but not as a response. I'm going to simmer on it a bit.

 

More gun regulation is not going to do a damn thing. Personally, I do not think they can truly investigate each and every individual that purchases a firearm more than they do already. They just can't! And, what does a 30-day waiting period do to eliminate nutcases? I did read they might change the age limit one can purchase a firearm, probably make it 21... Here in Idaho it is already 18.

EDIT: I misread and at first wrote it as "Here in Idaho it is already 21." I am not sure if I would be against raising the age to 21, same as tobacco and alcohol, need to think about it. I do realize it is strange as you can go into the military at 18 and carry a rifle so...

 

In Illinois it is a waiting period of 24 hrs for a long gun and 72 hrs on a handgun but has not stopped me from purchasing any gun I want and or need. It works for legal gun owners. And before it gets going Illinois is more than Chicago which I never go to. St Louis is a much nicer and cleaner city.
I do not think or believe that gun control works but I have to say FOID card seems to work here and has been the law most of my life and it costs me 10 bucks for ten years

 

The gun regulation that will stop school shootings is the gun free Zone. More specifically the removal of the gun free Zone law.
All its proven on a regular basis is that it turns schools into slaughter houses.

 

Guns are a great part of American culture FROM IT'S BEGINNING.
ANY ONE not willing to assimilate into this culture is un-American and should be shown the door.

 

@snake6264 "but I have to say FOID card seems to work here"
How do these FOID cards differ from a simple background check? Here, in Idaho, they call in to check Police/FBI files each and every time you purchase a firearm. That is done on the spot while you wait at the counter. You say these cards are good for 10 years but a lot can change in 10 years. I don't know these cards but seem they are nothing except a means to track firearms to owners. Also, there is no wait time here which to me seems the right thing to do as never understood what a 'wait time' was suppose to achieve, totally illogical. I think Idaho laws are about the best you can get, simple and thorough.

The teachers need to be armed. Only a gun can stop another gun unless you really get lucky. Get rid of Public schools and privatize them then the schools can armed the teachers without interference plus then people can choose what school they want to spend their money on or Home School them...and I don't have to be taxed supporting 3 different schools of which I don't have any child attending.

 

the only problem with any of waiting periods is the return back hassle .. returning to a distant gunshop after buying a bargain - and then the gun shows - you need to wait for next months show or arrange to meet up with the dealer a few days later .... pain in the azz

the IL FOID went in back in the 1960s - issued for 10 yrs - now $2/year - no age limit - it's basically cheap picture ID - guaranteed by the ILSP at that issue date that you're not a felon and a verified IL resident - doesn't mean you own any firearms - intend to buy any - no guarantee that you can buy one ... the dealer still needs to call in and verify the current status of the paper .... a CCW application gets verified along with the current status of the FOID ...

does it help? - in a way - 1,000s of felons and other listed denials are refused yearly - their FOID applications denied or their purchase of a weapon refused due to a pulled FOID ...

actually stop someone that wants to go the illegal route? - hell no .....

 

Gun control in a fantasy pure and simple, it cannot work, will not work, and has not worked ever! We got our first taste of it in 1934, and again in 1968, and yet nothing has changed, bad guys can still get guns, and even banning certain guns hasn't prevented any crook from picking one that fills his need and continuing to do his bad with that Gun! 33,000+ infringeents across the board having stopped any crime, and no amount ever will, so making more infringeents will do nothing more then allow the antis to say we did Something! An outright ban of ALL firearms will only drive the black markets and home builders, and turn normal law abiding into felons who are willing to chance it for what they believe in! We all know gun control is a false umbrella and the so called "Gun show Loophole" and ccomprehesive back ground check" are nothing but talking points for the bobble heads to spew forth. Only real change can make these problems go away, and it isn't the gun or the honest law abiding among us! The standard 4473 NICS B.C.G. is more then enough of a BCG and should only be required once every few years. The Local, State, and Fed should maintain and update records, and up load any changes to the Feebs so that a change in status can happen! Go after criminals and punish them harshly, and stop the drug problem. Treat mental health like the problem it is, and disconnct the gun from all discussion of what to do and how to do it!
Gun Control is a false Fantasy dreamed up by utopian elites as feel good modern living where there is only peace and no one need worry about getting killed or criminalized! Problem is, in that fantasy world, cannot even exist when you cannot even prevent simple crime or a man' desire to take from others what isn' his to take! All pure vanilla after that!

 

Have you ever noticed no one blames the gun when a cop shoots someone?

 

Very well said, my friend.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think in the long run those against firearms are going to win. They are well funded, supported by the screaming left and its media, and we are losing the high ground. My brother who has hunted all of his life and owned firearms since he was 8 years old is starting to buy into this we don't need assault rifles in private citizens hands and doesn't understand that their definition covers nearly all semi auto weapons with a removable magazine. How can you talk self respect and responsibility to a group of people who were born into single parent families and who have not worked for generations. While I know that I am taring everyone of them with the same brush and there are many people who have risen above those challenges, for the majority of those individuals, the sad fact is that they have little respect for the law or anything else. Watching the Florida school where the latest incident occurred being turned into even more of a secure zone with security approaching that of a federal prison and the intense anti gun culture that is being instilled there, it is very likely that most of them will continue to scream for total gun elimination and over a period of time will vote it in. It is becoming ever more apparent that unless God interferes in the process we will become a gun free welfare state run be a totalitarian socialist government. In my lifetime of 80 years, we have lost most of our freedoms in the name of safety, racial equality, gender equality, etc, and it doesn't seem likely to cease until they win.