Discussion in 'Survival Reading Room' started by Seacowboys, Jul 1, 2007.

  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    For all your friends and neighbors.

    Attached Files:

    ditch witch and Warscent like this.
  2. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Good stuff, thanks Sea. I think it should be a sticky for those of us that need facts to argue our point with the ignorant.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    [ditto]I think you have the power, and agree.[ditto]
  4. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    It's stuck!
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    [winkthumb] I knew you could do it. [winkthumb]

    I have stuck a few things in my time. [melbo]
  6. RJB

    RJB Monkey+++

    I have to respectfully disagree. It is rather rude to put up arguments against gun control without posting the other side. So with all due respect to our liberals on the forum, I'd like to post 40 of the best liberal aruments for gun control. I expect the flames to come... :)

    [SIZE=+2]40 Reasons for Gun Control[/SIZE]
    1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, & Chicago cops need guns.
    2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
    3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
    4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
    5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
    6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
    7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
    8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
    9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense -- give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p.125).
    10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
    11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.
    12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.
    13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.
    14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arm" refers to the state.
    15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.
    16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.
    17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons", but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles", because they are military weapons.
    18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, finger printing, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.
    19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.
    20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
    21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
    22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
    23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
    24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
    25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
    26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."
    27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
    28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
    29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.
    30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
    31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.
    32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
    33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
    34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over hand guns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.
    35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
    36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
    37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.
    38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.
    39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon. 40. Handgun Control, Inc. says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands. <!-- END OF PAGE CONTENTS -->
    john316, Warscent and TwoCrows like this.
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Excellent. I'll take number one.
    "Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, & Chicago cops need guns."

    There is no connection between banning guns and the need for cops (in any jurisdiction) to carry them. The logic is flawed and not supported by actual references. If you can supply studies based on actual numbers, not slanted statistics, they you might convince me. But if you refer to 4.2 above, you'll find data that refutes your statement. In fact, until the Brits banned private ownership, the bobbies did not find it necessary to carry.
  8. RJB

    RJB Monkey+++

    that list of 40 reasons is a joke. read them with a sense of humor because they are all purposely illogical.

    The reason I posted them with seacowboys good sticky is that I've become more proficient at debating anti-gunners because all their arguments are really that ridiculous.

    And thanks for the post seacowboy. I downloaded for future reference.
  9. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

  10. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    RJB.... you should post those in their own thread.... that's awesome!
  11. RJB

    RJB Monkey+++

    Yeah, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

    BTW I didn't write them it's been going around for a while.
  12. nightshade7206

    nightshade7206 Monkey+++

    LOVE IT! Thank you for sharing
  13. MbRodge

    MbRodge Monkey+++

    I've been slowly making my way through this book for a while now and have a few observations to make. Although I agree with the goal of this work, to give us gun rights people a citeable source, I don't think this book is effective. To anyone not already convinced of this viewpoint the book means nothing. The references cited by the author are newspaper articles and even a few QUOTES! A quote from a person, no matter their job, doesn't scientificaly prove anything. The author does quote a few reputable studies, but not nearly enough to support the proposed findings. Once again, I want to make it known that I agree with the author that gun control is a pack of lies aimed at an ignorant public. I just feel that he does us a disservice by telling us to reference his material to convince people of our view point when his material is mostly a scientific-appearing reference to personal quotes. Any opinions?
  14. BlackCrow

    BlackCrow Monkey++

    I like his quote: If you're are gonna be dumb you gotta be tough, good post RJB
  15. This is great. Downloaded a copy - I will be sending this out to everyone.
  16. Firestorm

    Firestorm Monkey+


    I have not been able to down load this can anyone help.


  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    FS, it isn't current, but if you have adobe reader, it will download without difficulty. Reader is a free download if you don't have it.
  18. sfrd39

    sfrd39 Monkey

    def worth the read
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