Hate the Police?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by TNZ71, Sep 8, 2008.


  1. TNZ71

    TNZ71 PEACE THRU FIREPOWER

    Is it me or does everyone here have one heavy dislike for the Police? I understand that most of us here are the "Rugged Individual Type" and maybe do have a slight problem with authority but really some post are rabid. Granted the Police can be very heavy handed but usually must be provoked in some form. I ain't defended shit but damn, F- the Anarchist. I don't throw rocks at hornet's nest either.
     
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Once police forces began receiving federal subsidizes and the attached guidelines and became essentially paramilitary extensions of .gov, I have had an increasingly vehement attitude about them. Not about the police as individuals, members of our community, but about a quasi-federal paramilitary force that reminds me of what I have read about mid-20th century European history, particularly central Europe from 1933-1945. Anyone that misses that comparison is either blind or ignorant of history and anyone that ignores that comparison is either naive or one of them. I have a lot of heated discussions with several of my shooting buddies (mostly police types) about this very subject and surprisingly, quite a few agree but they are "only following orders". We the people, are to blame for allowing this to happen and we are to blame for allowing it to continue.
     
  3. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    It is the "rotten apples" that I have a problem with, granted their numbers are very low considering what they have to put up with on a daily basis.

    As SC wrote above, there are a lot of "good guys" that will blindly "follow orders" with out questining the moral ramafications. There were a lot of law enforcement officers in Nazi Germany that were never apart of the Gestapo or the SS, yet they "follwed orders". They were also classified and tried as war criminals and alot of them were executed along side their Nazi counterparts.
     
  4. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Seacowboys post echoed for truth.

    TNZ71 - It's a lot like our general dislike of bankers or lawyers or liberals or whatever. We all know good individuals within each category, it's the category as a whole and the direction their taking that gives us problems, as well as those individuals within the category that are corrupt/dirty/absent morality. When the percentages of those "negative" individuals grows out of proportion to the "good ones" , as it has with police, it's only natural to have a distrust/dislike of the group as a whole.

    I'm probably harder on cops, and more distrusting of them in general than most on this forum....... and I'm a former LEO and corrections officer myself. I'm so distrusting because I've seen first hand what can happen when their power is abused, and one constant in human behavior is that power will be abused. I stepped over that line myself a few times. I didn't have the temperment to be a truly good cop.

    What you will also find on this forum is that across the board, we all have total respect for those truly good cops that are out there. And we all pretty much agree that it's a total sh*t job with not nearly enough pay.

    Topping that all is the issue that even the best cop, with the best intentions, and of sound moral character, when given the order to violate your rights (like gun confiscations in New Orleans) will choose to keep their job and violate your rights rather than quit.
     
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    What Seacowboys said. Going after federal money for local causes no matter how well intentioned comes with a price. Case extant, and many more like it, the price is the Feds get into your affairs and pocketbook ever deeper. And, of course, in the process they (Feds) want to know who and how the money is spent, thus grows the parasitic expense as the cost of watchdog staffing goes up. All of which reduces the amount returned and available locally (sometimes called "pork" spending.)

    Back on topic, then. I don't hate cops, but I have to admit being very wary when they are around, it is entirely too easy for them to misunderstand a glance, or a reach, or whatever have you that attracts their attention. They are trained, rightfully, to be suspicious, and I'm not convinced that all of them are sufficiently insightful to correctly assess any particular person of interest. If they were, the standard procedure of handcuffing first and asking questions later would not be needed. "Standard procedures" are good, but hardly necessary for grammar school kids and grandmas, and not really required for white collar crimes ---
     
  6. CBMS

    CBMS Looking for a safe place

    I actually completely agree with everyone above. It is not the police as individuals that I dislike. Its the fact they are given mandated orders to do things, that even they do not want to do. However as the saying goes "Gotta pay the mortgage somehow"

    I actually like the police as people, even in a professional sense. I admire their job, and their commitment to their fellow citizens. What I dont like are the "Armed security guards" enforcing "Company Policy" on the populace without laws regulating their actions.
     
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    What every one else above said.. :) I 'm ex mil investigator ,I developed an "attitude shift" after tasering became a national sport...people who were obviously no physical threat sent to the ground writhing in pain with the ocasional kick thrown in for good technique..( perhaps for making a sarcastic comment or not "stepping to" quickly enough).and all the videos of the "officer Rivierie'"types".Stopping folks for" suspicion" and (after being asked to explain their actions); telling the citizen "Don't tell me the law, we'll see who knows the law" and that they will make up some charge and you'll go to jail tonight son. Like a power fight with my teenager...
     
  8. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Oh yeah, didn't we do this thread once before??(4 pages of current and missing monkey "wisdom" :http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8143&highlight=police+brutality
    What you need to take away here is these folks (monkeys commenting above)are all good "hardcore" Americans, vets, current us gov badge carriers,LEO's, ex LEO's All are the type (myself included) who would come upon a scene of an officer wrestling with a" scumbag" and offer assistance to the officer if needed. Createing an "us v them" mentality among the common citizens is a very bad idea. Imho police are not aclass of super citizen.(above the law)..
     
  9. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Seems that way doesn't it.
    I don't have a problem with the police in my area, just went three states and not a problem. I suspect it is mostly the way they are being treated, is what you get in return.
     
  10. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    This topic has been batted around on this board since it's inception and has caused some good people to leave. Just like Quig said, cops are a reflection of the societies they live in.
    The topic of the cops here is much like the topic of the military on some other boards, people fear/hate anyone that has the power to force them to do anything.
    When I flew counter drug, most often than not, the people that would complain about helicopter noise had something to hide. One man kept complaining to the point that he filed a congressional. The KBI had had enough and we did a specific fly-over of his place and guess what, 126 full grown marry jane plants well cultivated in his back yard, he was trying to keep us from finding them. From that point on, any noise complainers got a special look.
     
  11. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Sniper...... you just hit it right on the head!!


    Don't you see that's part of the problem? That's very much why many people here are distrusting. Even if you have a legitimate complaint, the anal probe just goes deeper.

    No officer, I don't want to give you permission to search my car/home. Why, what are you hiding! I think that's probable cause!

    No homeland security, I don't want you listening to my phone conversation, chipping my livestock, etc....... why, are you hiding something? Let's look at you a bit closer.



    The citizenry is NOT the enemy.
     
  12. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Nope! I don't hate them. I have never run into a "bad" one.
     
  13. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I know, it's like stereotyping, there is usually some truth to it. People go shopping where they know there is product, Cops do the same. SOMETIMES, if you look guilty, you probably are. When I did counter drug, in four years, I was wrong once. Yet, almost every one of the suspects claimed innocence and only one of those got off.
     
  14. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Hate cops? Not personnally but; Don't say they( bad cops) don't exist. Look into one word:
    "Louima"
    Mr Louima was beaten in handcuffs before arriving at an nypd station, held down by officer(s) and sodomized with the handle of a toilet plunger tearing his rectum,and perforating his bladder.Requiring multiple surgeries.Officer Volpe inserted the blood and feces strewn instrument into Mr.Louima's mouth then carried it around the station boasting to other officers he "broke a man down"
    http://archives.cnn.com/1999/US/12/13/volpe.sentencing.02/index.html
     
  15. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry Krieg Hündchen

     
  16. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry Krieg Hündchen

    ............................
     
  17. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Was wondering how long it was going to take for you to throw down on this!
     
  18. WestPointMAG

    WestPointMAG Monkey++

    I am a Trustee with the F.O.P.A. and I get it from both sides. When people find out that I am a Trustee they feel compelled to tell me every bad thing an officer did or did not do. I tell all of them the same thing if you have or think there is a problem file a compliant. Now if you have a problem with the P.D.’s shooting range or the property in general I am all ears and will do everything in my power to see that it is resolved.

    Now do we have LEOs hear that should not be on the force? Yes and I have made it clear to the CLEO as to how I feel. Has one ever steeped out of line with me? Yes and when they discovered that they are on the unfun end of a 12Ga. they have sled there toes back across the line.

    The biggest thing that keeps the LEOs here in check is that citizens can use there range for $20.00 a year and the LEOs know just how well armed the civilian population of this city {Town less the 30,000} is. I am one that about once a year makes it a point to freak them out, they are like deer caught in head lights. As every other scabbard is unzipped, I here is that blankty blank blank thing even legal? When I tell them yes and offer to let them shoot it most of the time they just stutter, stammer and shake.

    The city tried to enact an ordnance that they could come into your house any time they wanted and search it. We made it very clear to them that if they tried to do it they would have a lot of dead “inspectors” as a result. The decided it would be best to table it for now.

    The 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment is more about check and balance then any thing else, in the past where that balance was upset freedoms were lost. To keep them in check we must have at least a balance and hopefully the scale will be heavy on our end.
     
  19. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Somehow that's not as reassuring as you probably intended...

    but I understand your point, there are bad cops, sadistic dentists, sports referees on the take...etc, etc...Problem is if I resist the others it doesn't count against me.

    If I can count on a legal system protecting me. That's one thing; I will submit and my lawyer can sort it out tomorrow, if I have to worry about being assaulted with a broom handle and getting internal injuries, I'm gonna think twice about putting myself in your hands for"safekeeping".

    __________________
     
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    That is the part that is invisible, the back story. All Joe Sixpack and Sally Yuppie see is what gets published, and the more sensational the better. And of course, the sensational stories are the ones that cause folks to acquire an anti-cop attitude or nervous twitch simply because the bad cop wears the same uniform as the good one. Now and then, the good guys get rewarded with commendations and the like, but that does NOT show up on prime time news, it is on the last page of the local fish wrapper. Joe S and Sally Y don't read past the headlines; their attitude is formed from the stories that come with prime news and the hashings and rehashings in threads like this across the web. I don't think anyone's mind get changed.

    My sympathies go to the CLEOs that cannot get rid of bad apples any faster than they do because of the transparency requirements in the HR departments at City Hall.

    [coffee2]
     
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