Healthcare is a right?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Big Ron, Jan 20, 2019.


  1. Big Ron

    Big Ron Monkey++

    I always figured it was something you were lucky to have. I see many articles where Democrats say this stuff about it being a right. I do think the cost of insurance is insane. I asked my Canadian relatives what they think of their system. They had no complaints. Talking about how my parents' current bills and the struggle to pay them don't exist in Canada. Does make you wonder. Folks here worry(okay I worry) about socialism, but from what I see we are pretty much there.
    I also wonder about my relatives since they have no problem with their system of gov. I think it's that frog in the pot thing.
     
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  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Socialism only works until you run out of other peoples Money to use to fund it.... Think Nicaragua... Columbia... Cuba....Brazil... Central Africa.... most of the SHitHoles of the world.....
     
  3. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    I've heard of a few Canadians that said it took a while to get a doctors appointment , were not happy with the overall system .. I don't know myself .
    As far as socialism , I think it's a great concept , It just won't last . Why would you work , if you didn't have to ? Then , who is going to work , so you don't have to ?
    It's like building an engine that will produce enough power or fuel to sustain itself . I don't think one has been invented yet that can do that .
    Just on quick thought , I tried thinking of a society that was completely equal . The only one I can think of was the American Indians tribes . They all shared what they had , everyone had what they needed . But each one was required to work . And that's how they survived . And then came the freeloaders . Other tribes wanted what they had, they felt the other tribe had more than them . And then came the white man . and the rest is history . But in the tribes , the lazy , and the thieves were banished from the tribe to fend for themselves . Thus formed the banditos . That may not be the correct term , but you get the idea .
     
  4. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    Years ago, thru Chevron Corp. we had full coverage, in no copays everything covered even prescriptions. Had two kids not a penny.
    Then 1998 rolled around and copays became popular. The deductible, the problem is also the month cost was much higher so everything went up with in 3-5 years.

    Obamacare, raise our monthly cost x2, it raised deductibles to 700%. you got no coverage until you met a 3K per person yearly deductible. And then they only covered around 30% of the bill. In one year with no illness we paid over 10K just to have insurance we were forced to have. Whats odd is prior the same company had no deductibles except on surgeries. Office visits were 20.00 and prescription we mostly covered.Obama care came in with no insurance company oversight built in and we all got screwed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  5. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    One need only look at the horror stories that come out of the "National Heath Service" of the UK to understand that 'free' medical is not free and in many cases, isn't even health care.

    Two dead after pigeon dropping infection
    Two dead after pigeon dropping infection at hospital
     
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  6. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Louisiana at one time had the closest thing to ''Free Healthcare'' ran by the Catholic church in the form of state wide Charity Hospitals.
    Mostly funded by Catholic donations and the state,Sadly these are going away.
     
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  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    My argument to what is and is not a Basic Human Right...

    Picture yourself on a deserted tropical island. It is just you and all the fresh fruit, native vegetables and wild tasty animals a fishes you desire in abundance. You can shout from the highest mountain your deepest thoughts, you can sunbath naked on the beach, but; what you do not have is someone to collect, hunt and prepare your food, someone to build your shelter as that you must create from the materials available to you and construct to the best of your own abilities, you do not have clothing, fire, or health care. Everything you need is on your island for you to have Life, Liberty and Pursue happiness to the best of your abilities.

    If you make poor decisions, have no skills, and are unmotivated, then you will have nothing. The expectation that someone else should provide for you ended when you left your parent's nest.
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Pretty much agree. "Rights" are not given you by anyone, they are inherent in your birth. Healthcare is not enumerated. If you can afford it, buy it. (You ain't gonna buy rights, you're gonna buy a product, and the seller sets the price according to supply and demand.)
     
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  9. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    It is about balance and what it is you want from Govt. There is little question that the cost of even general medical treatment in the US is insane. That getting basic ER services and say a busted arm set can cost an individual thousands beggars belief. This and the cost of health insurance in the US are clearly driven by the commercial nature of the process (I believe).

    We have a national health system here in Aus (Medicare), it is not perfect but it is not pathetic at all either. We also have lots of pretty well funded public hospitals that will treat you and not leave you bankrupt (if you are a public patient the out of pocket charges for a routine surgery are in the hundreds, not thousands for example).

    We pay a % tax that funds this. The cost of Health Insurance is also much much cheaper here. I am in a top tier private scheme and along with my % tax pay under $7kpa for the best private cover available. I also get a tax rebate because I pay for private cover.

    I am lucky because I am healthy and have not had to use much of any of it, arguably I would have been better off with the money as savings and just paid the difference myself. But I am able to turn up at one of the top private hospitals in the country (they also run an ER) be triaged in 15mins, moved to a private ER room, be assessed by a ER Doc, have a CT scan and be moved to my private room in under two hrs. Later that night (I was comfortably watching Alaskan Wilderness People on the in room cable TV) I was taken to meet my surgeon who promptly operated on my appendix and fixed a hernia I didn’t realise I had.

    Three days recovery and discharged with an out of pocket cost of around $900 by the time both Govt and Private schemes had kicked in.

    It’s not perfect but it works better than many of the alternatives.
     
  10. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Great Andy, glad it works for you and you don't mind paying for those who cannot or do not want to contribute. How does that coverage work if you travel out of the country? Let's say you take a trip to Europe and break a leg in Scotland?
     
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  11. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    We can debate the right or wrong of taxes paying for health care, but the main point I was making is that the cost of health care and insurance in the US is disproportionate to the rest of the world.

    As to the Scottish example;

    My travel insurance will pay for that. A policy for say a 28day trip to the UK will set me back $109A. Along with the coverage for itinerary changes, $25k for lost baggage, $1M in personal liability, it also includes an unlimited cover for medical and medical evacuation.

    Australia also has reciprocal Medicare arrangements (where we can access the local public healthcare system) with the UK, Belgium, Finland, Italy, Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Rep of Ireland, Slovenia, Sweden and The UK (including Scotland, so my broken leg there is covered anyway).
     
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  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Your rights end where my wallet begins.
    If they can use calling or making something a right to justify using other peoples money to make it happen then everything they want will just eventually be a right.
     
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  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    No, Health Care is not a right...put perhaps it's time we got something of value for our taxes instead of seeing it mismanaged and thrown away on corruption, bribes, on the Defense Industry, ridiculous programs, etc....

    Concerning Health Care, I have made it a challenge to try and educate people here and everywhere with what I have personally seen and done - not hearsay, not read on the internet, not what I seen/heard on Radio/TV.

    I have used UK healthcare and German and Dutch and in the Mideast (UAE), and even in third world countries and in ALL of them I found they were either just as good or better in some way than what we have here in the states.

    I've only been back 4 years and during that time I have learn to totally hate the healthcare in this country. Why?
    First, because it's a friggin lie! The entire system is set up to do nothing but make money off the ignorant and patriotic people of this country. And, even the care here is not that great. It's just not!

    We want to blame the Pharmaceutical companies for the cost of medicine but it is the US Government that is tied to their hip and allowing the citizens to be financially raped! Canada's government stops it. Our government not only won't stop but they condone it!...my guess is it finances a hell'va lot of reelections.

    On this forum I have repeatedly gave personal example of cost difference of medicine between the USA and Canada. No, it has NOTHING to do with Canadian National Healthcare - nothing - the costs are simply 5x-11x more.

    Furthermore, what Americans don't seem to understand is that it doesn't matter if we have socialist programs or not - because we are going broke regardless! LOL! We are at 108% of our GDP in debt the last time I checked with no end in sight. So, they are spending the money anyway but not on what this country really needs, not on us.

    For me, I say give me National Health Care, like all the other first-world countries have, and if that means we cannot give away Billions to Israel ($10.5 million per day) and other foreign countries, if that means we don't have a military that can police the world, if that means that some other Social Programs have to go away, etc.....then good. Furthermore, if that means we FAIL then SO BE IT! But, it sure is strange that none of the other first-world countries have failed... But, good, fail and get it over with but at least 'We the People' will finally get something for our tax dollars until that time.

    One last thing.... I am as patriotic as ANY member on this damn forum, I've been shot at, spat at and shat at, but Healthcare will be one, if not the major platform for the next election and if the Democrats promise a National system - they get my vote. It's that simple. Health Care is the BIGGEST scam, lie, blackmail that has ever happened in this country and yet it is perfectly legal and will never change because they are ALL in on it together - Insurance Companies, Health Administrators, Drug Companies and the US Government.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  14. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    It is a slippery slope from my perspective, and how long before decent shelter becomes a basic human right, how about transportation as many cities have major taxes set in place to support public transportation, how about food and decent clothing being a basic human right. My problem with government involvement in health care, or anything else; is that they will eventually begin making decisions for what will and will not be provided for instead of me and my doctor making that decision. It is all about what level of government you are willing to live with. I currently pay over $7K for top tier coverage and was forced into Medicare which costs me an additional $3,300 annually. But, the co-pay on meds is less than $2 per prescription and $5 for the annual routine office visit. That doesn't take into account what I pay for vision and dental coverage....
     
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  15. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    That has already happened in Kali and Hawaii.
     
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  16. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    The simple fact is we are the Richest Nation on earth and we treat everyone including ourselves like SH*T
     
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  17. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Health insurance is in no way a right...and something that gets in my craw is how folks seem to think that health insurance is the same as health care. There is no comparison between the two. Care is what you get, insurance is what gets you.
     
  18. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only one left in this country that believed this. LOL!
     
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  19. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Some of us have good private insurance here through our employers. 5e appendectomy with a good private insurance plan here in the US would end up costing not much more than what you paid. It comes down to deductables, % covered for different things and what you pay per month for the value of it. I pay $150 per month for the family and I. Decently low deductable and 90% of most things in network. (Prevetative is 100%with no copays) . So, it depends on that you have in the US.
     
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  20. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    No one has a natural right to the forced labor of someone else. You can justify it all you want, but the fact is if it is wrong for an individual to come in and steal a dollar out of my wallet, then it is still wrong to band together in a group, call it government, and do the same thing.
     
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