here come the nazi or they here already

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by marlas1too, May 13, 2016.


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  1. marlas1too

    marlas1too Monkey++

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  2. GOG

    GOG Monkey++

    Not a doubt in my mind that one way or another this ride is over.
     
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
     
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  4. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey Site Supporter

    We are the enemy.. Why wouldn't the socialist use the enemies of the state to improve the lives of the privalaged..

    The nazi state has been here for a very long time.. They feel secure enough to stop the pretenses, and that is what is really disturbing.. They think they have won!
     
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  5. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

  6. Legion489

    Legion489 Shining the Light of Truth

    Well actually many (all?) of those parallels are also true of Japan in WWII, which did far worse things than Nazi Germany, but you NEVER hear of those. The Nazis are like God, if Nazis (or God) didn't exsist, someone would have had to make it/them up.
     
  7. marlas1too

    marlas1too Monkey++

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    OMG, Amerika is on the express elevator to hell!!! Amerika is so like Nazi Germany, that there doesn't seem to be much difference....or so the author of the tosh laden Freedom Outpost article referenced in the opening post would have us believe. Ten stunning parallels?? More like 10 stunning instances of propagandist misinformation.

    Lets look at each of Michael T Snyder's claims....

    Lets consider claim #9 Abortion.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
    (1) This bald statement is blatantly misleading!

    Abortion as a medical intervention was partially decriminalised during the Weimar Republic, but restricted to
    Other than authorised in cases of grave danger to the life of the mother, abortion in Weimar Germany was illegal, and attracted legal sanctions.

    Hitler toughened the existing sanctions against unauthorised abortions,
    Hitler was definitely not pro-choice as far as abortion was concerned. Hitler, if anything was pro-baby incubating German Aryan motherhood, Abortion in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and offered incentives for the Germanic equivalent of fulfilling Psalm 127:3-5 Women in Nazi Germany

    (2) This also is not a case in favour of "pro-choice", It being more a case of Statist population control : Discouraging "non-Aryan" population growth in favour of "Aryan" population growth.

    Regardless of whether or not abortion was immoral in the Nazi context, abortion was not, in the Third Reich, a "pro- life" or a "pro choice" issue, it was simply a matter of State policy in maintaining the State's racial purity ideology. The parallel to contemporary American society is at best a tenuous one, if at all. Is the American Government marching pregnant undocumented / illegal aliens to abortion clinics to keep the foreigner's numbers down??? If so, I've not heard of it.

    ......................................................................................................................................................................................................

    (3) It is interesting that this claim is baldly asserted without any evidence being offered to support it whatsoever. Snyder does not cite any direct linkage between Sanger's work, and Hitler's policies with regards to abortion.

    The claim is refuted by Sanger's and the Nazis attitudes and actions towards each other. Snyder's claim is an unsubstantiated untruth.
    MSPP / Newsletter / Newsletter #32 (Winter 2002/2003)
    The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

    For example:
    It would seem that Hitler was not guided by Margaret Sanger's philosophies, nor had they even met. (despite the scurillous suggestions of some "pro-life" memists). For Sanger's part, she did not support Hitler, indeed, Margaret Sanger opposed Hitler and Nazism.

    ...........................................................................................................................................................................................................
    Equating a Margaret Sanger quote, extracted out of its context, with a brief quote of Hitler's, drawn from Mein Kampf is quite a stretch, but a stretch that Michael T Snyder Michael T. Snyder - RationalWiki seems to be comfortable in making. It is a false equivalency however, and logically fallacious False Equivalence | Truly Fallacious .

    (4) This fragment, cherry picked by Snyder, was drawn from Sanger's "Woman and the New Race. (1920). Chapter V. The Wickedness of Creating Large Families" 5. The Wickedness of Creating Large Families. Sanger, Margaret. 1920. Woman and the New Race . In context, Sanger's comment was not a prescriptive one, but a sardonic observation upon the deleterious effects of large families in impoverished circumstances upon the children who are born to them.
    It is clear from the context of the Sanger quote, that she is not advocating for infanticide, or even abortion. Margaret Sanger is pointing out the very evident reality, that large families, among the poor and destitute in that era, did not provide a satisfactory quality of life for those children who managed to survive infancy, beyond the first year. Such children were often doomed to a squalid existence in an overcrowded home, poor education, child labour and exploitation, and poor health outcomes among other lifestyle issues correlated with poverty. It is intellectually dishonest of Snyder to compare (as somehow equivalent) the Sanger quote with that of Hitler's.

    (5) This quote of Hitler's from Mein Kampf, also needs to be read in context....



    In context, in the Mein Kampf quote, Hitler is not advocating abortion, involuntary sterilisation or involuntary euthanasia, but the prevention of the spreading of congenital syphilis by segregating syphilitics from the general population. Syphilis at that time had no reliably effective treatment until the development of Salvarsan in the early 1900's, with Penicillin not becoming becoming the definitive treatment from the 1940's. Syphilis was often fatal, after a long debilitating illness, and frequently comorbid with insanity. Open Collections Program: Contagion, Syphilis, 1494–1923

    It is clear that Snyder's sandwiching of two disparate, quotes out of context, is misleading. A matter of intellectual "copy and paste" laziness, or a matter of deliberate intellectual dishonesty? Both are distinct possibilities.
    ..........................................................................................................................................................................................................
    Snyder concludes the section on Abortion with the following:
    (6) Snyder's inference that America shares an absolutely appalling disregard for human life, similar to the Nazi Third Reich, beggars the truth, and flies in the face of reality. His evidence? Some questionable claims, made by a couple of anti-abortionist activists who allegedly broke the law in the process of contriving a covert sting.

    Is America exterminating millions of racial undesirables in concentration camps? No. Is America implementing a program of slave labour similar to Germany's Third Reich? No. Is America, as a matter of State policy conducting programs of involuntary euthanasia to eliminate the mentally ill or the intellectually feeble? No. These are but some of the hallmarks of Nazi disregard for human life, through active policy intervention under Nazi rule. Snyder's claim fails to establish any kind of parallel to Nazi German atrocities.

    (7) It is remarkable, given that as late as May 2016, Michael Snyder still persists in assuming that the claims made by two anti-abortion campaigners have any substance. Various judicial and legislative investigations have been conducted into the practices of Planned Parenthood in respect of foetal tissue, and none have found any instance of misfeasance, let alone malfeasance. Planned Parenthood 2015 undercover videos controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ; The real story behind those Planned Parenthood videos - CNNPolitics.com ; Everything You Need to Know About the Planned Parenthood Videos ;
    However, a grand jury in Texas has found grounds to indict for trial, two individuals from the Center for Medical Progress, for their roles in allegedly tampering with government records, and in one case, "...with violating a prohibition on the purchase and sale of human organs, a misdemeanour..." in relation to their covert video "sting" against Planned Parenthood. Anti-abortion activists indicted in Texas for Planned Parenthood video

    (8) Snyder cites these statistics, as if only 29% of Americans support defunding of Planned Parenthood (PP) of Federal funding is bad thing. WTF? What Snyder does not understand, is that the 71% who oppose Federal defunding are the ones who have the nouse to understand the consequences of such a policy.....

    Would defunding Planned Parenthood reduce the number of elective abortions?....No! And, incidentally....elective abortions are not performed via Federal Title X Funding, and represent only 3% of PP's service provision. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf Fact Check: How Does Planned Parenthood Spend That Government Money?

    Would defunding Planned Parenthood increase the number of abortions being performed.?....YES!

    Reducing the capacity to provide sex education would result in increased instances of unwanted pregnancies.
    Reducing the capacity to provide reversible contraception, would increase instances of unwanted pregnancies.


    (9) To claim that America has become an "evil nation" is in my view, a gigantic overstatement (on the part of Mr M.T.Snyder). I don't know what Mr Snyder hopes to achieve by demonising his own nation, but it is not quite the kind of patriotism I'd expect of an American citizen.

    ..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
    Conclusion: Item #9 on Snyder's the list of "Stunning" parallels between Nazi Germany and the USA (Abortion) is a pile of BS that doesn't stand close scrutiny. However, uncritical minds, will undoubtedly applaud it anyway. (Perhaps they may be found among the 29% of the US population who are prepared to support the defunding of Planned Parenthood)

    If you have bothered to read my rebuttal of Snyder's article....through to the very end....you will recognise that it is a practical validation of the "Bullshit Asymmetry Principle" Bullshit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  9. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    I don't even bother reading Snyder's stuff anymore...he's really nothing more than a maddened gold-miner who keeps shoveling as much silt as possible, knowing that sooner or later he might find a nugget.
     
  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    He does seem to like referencing his own material elsewhere.
     
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  11. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Ah, yes, the famous circular reference. Luvvin' the ego --
     
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  12. Legion489

    Legion489 Shining the Light of Truth

    A few other parallels I didn't see:

    Hitler took a bankrupt country and turned it into a world power.
    Obummer took a world power and turned it into a bankrupt country.

    Hitler ranted about certain racial minorities.
    Obummer rants about certain racial majorities.

    Hitler wanted "inferior" groups sterilized so they couldn't have babies.
    Planned Parenthood (set up to get rid of "inferior" groups) wants women to have abortions so they can sells baby parts for profit.

    There are of course others.
     
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  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I don't think you have quite mastered the concept of parallel....but zhit slingin' is definitely your forte! ;)

    1. Hitler's re-armament and infrastructure programs turned Germany's economy around....much of the economic miracle attributed to Hitler was achieved at the expense of extorting vast amounts of wealth from European Jewry, and the expropriation of resources from countries that Nazi Germany at captured and occupied. Hitler was no great economic wunderkind....just a thief on a grand scale. The Third Reich's position as a world power was brief, culminating in Germany's utter destruction and occupation by foreign powers. How is that something to be lauded over?

    2. Unless I am mistaken, the USA is still a world power, and, although the road to massive sovereign debt had been well and truly laid by Obama's predecessors, as I understand it, nobody has occupied the USA, as the USA, USSR, France, and Great Britain did of Germany, post WW2.

    3. Hitler did not just rant about certain racial minorities, he embarked on a systematic campaign of exterminating them utterly from existence. He was also quite comfortable with exterminating significant slabs of racial majorities also.....if they stood in his way of his absolute political control. Jews, Gypsies and Slavs weren't the only inmates in concentration and slave labour camps. Aryan Jehova Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Social Democrats, socialists and Communists et al, were also very eligible for tattooed arms.

    4. It's your claim, but I'd be interested knowing to which particular rants about certain racial majorities you are referring.

    5. Get it right: Hitler's involuntary sterilisation, and involuntary euthanasia programs were aimed at achieving the racial purity of the Aryan master race. Preventing babies from being born, was a means to an end...not an end in itself. He was much less concerned with maintaining the racial vigour of non-Aryan races. Hitler's main concern for non-Aryans was as a source of slave labour to be ruled and exploited.

    6. What happened to Obumma?? You have been tag teaming Uncle Adolf with Cousin Barrak in comparisons 1-4 and now you bait and switch Barrak for (Margie Sanger) Planned Parenthood (PP)? What gives? The sterilisation procedures performed by Planned Parenthood are voluntary and legal. The abortion procedures performed via PP are also voluntary and legal ( in terms of Roe v Wade). A couple of anti-abortion activists (David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt) allegedly tried, unsuccessfully to entrap Planned Parenthood, but their attempted sting blew up in their faces. Several judicial and legislative investigations have been conducted, investigating Centre for Medical Progress's (CMP) allegations that Planned Parenthood had broken foetal tissue laws, and found that Planned Parenthood hadn't broken any of the laws that The CMP alleged that it had. Planned Parenthood 2015 undercover videos controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You appear to be simply replicating the alleged libel that the CMP is presently facing litigation for. Planned Parenthood Sues “Complex Criminal Enterprise” Behind Deceptive Videos
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    The rest of your reply is exceptional (as usual), but this part I have trouble with. Much of this portion of history as well as many others, was written by historians who, let's just say, were on the winning team. There's actually much more to this story, but because of the stigmatic persona of anything "Nazi", very few dare to question it. The Jews even have their own phrase for anything they find offensive, and they call it "antisemitism". And the event is known by the word, "holocaust". It reminds me of another abuse of power gleaned from auspicious circumstances --namely, the Catholic church. I believe we can all comprehend the real meaning behind the use of "heresy" and "blasphemy".

    Did 6 million Jews really die?


    Just one of many, many holocaust hoax documentaries (picked at random):


    There are also documentaries of some actual "holocaust" survivors, who were interviewed and when questioned, not one of them actually ever saw what they thought. Yet, Hitler's program to "get rid" of Jews included mass emigration to what's known as Israel. Many Jews were moved from transfer facilities to larger camps, not executed as the Jewish holocaust survivors claimed. More Jews died from typhus than anything else. I'm not condoning what was done. I am only trying to clarify one of many myths about WWII in Nazi Germany. We could also choose to discuss the millions of rapes which occurred when Russia took over Berlin, or we could discuss Stalin and the tens of millions he slaughtered (just 10 million over the course of one winter when he exported his own people's grain for profit and they starved to death) --but Stalin was a friend of Roosevelt, favored in the American Press (which was bought by wealthy industrialists and Zionists at bankruptcy auction in the 1920's-30's) and he was also an ally. I suppose his crimes will forever be swept under the carpet, no special terms assigned for his atrocities, no people proselytizing his chosen religion, and nobody defending the people he mercilessly slaughtered, which far outweighs the (mostly fictional) death toll created by Nazi's.
     
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  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The long road to the Holocaust is a hotly debated topic from many sides of the issue. Those Jews in Germany and Western Europe who had money and overseas connections and could see the writing on the wall, left early while the going was good. Those who did not have those resources or stayed too long in the belief that things would get better, unfortunately became trapped, and many of them did not make it through to the end of WW2.

    Yes, some did make it to Israel, but not as many as has been suggested by some Holocaust revisionists. The British still had control of the mandated territory of Palestine, and were not keen to upset the applecart with the Arabs, by allowing an imbalance of population through accepting boatloads of Jews fleeing Germany. Indeed, The Nazis exploited much propaganda from the experience of the MS St Louis, when the mostly Jewish passengers left for Cuba, just a few months prior to the commencement of WW2. MS St. Louis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Both Cuba and the USA denied them entry, and ultimately the passengers were mostly turned away to mostly European refugee sponsors. Many did not survive WW2.

    My wife's grandfather died in Auschwitz in early 1945. He was a pretty resilient fellow...given that he sustained a debilitating gunshot wound to his shoulder whilst serving the Kaiser on the Eastern Front in WWI. He was rounded up with other Jews when the Germans occupied Vichy France in 1942.

    We could also talk about all of the Russian, Polish and other Slav prisoners of war f the Germans who died or starvation and neglect, for want of their respective countries honouring the Geneva Convention. German mistreatment of Soviet prisoners of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  16. marlas1too

    marlas1too Monkey++

    people talk of the Jew holocaust but why don't they talk about an even bigger one the rape ans slaughter of a whole
    land mas the Americas--yes the native Americans-- sorry there I go again---- I do respect the struggle of the Jews
     
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  17. Legion489

    Legion489 Shining the Light of Truth

    Thanks Chelloveck, coming from you that is quite an honor! Usually people are trying to attack the truth, and it is good to see someone who appreciates the hard work I put in.

    You might also check out the LIFE Mag from 1916 (OK, 1918 anyway) to 1920 and 1943 to 1946. Of course since Life Mag is a well known right wing hate filled rag, I wouldn't take much notice of what they claimed during and after the war, such as the photo of the young boy in the 1943 and 1944 issues in the letters to the ed column (don't worry, you will know it when you see it and then read the follow letter and photo. Makes interesting reading).
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
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  18. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    "We gassed some folks" -- Barack Hitler Obama
     
  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Citation? It helps putting the quotation in some kind of context. It also helps in fact checking the quote.
     
  20. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    It's obviously a made up quote from a made up name. Sorry I didn't drop a piano on your head first to prime your powers of observation. Bet you're a ton of fun at parties, chell. ;)
     
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