here we go again.. holocaust (museum shooting)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tango3, Jun 10, 2009.


  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

  2. The Expendable

    The Expendable Bread and Circus Master

    Re: herewegoagain.. holocaust (museum shooting)

    If only there were a law against violence like this, this never would have happened.
     
  3. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Gotta love the MSM. I saw the steady progression of the way they described the killer.
    Day One - "88 year old man with rifle".
    Day Two - "88 year old man with hostility and antisemitic issues"
    Day Three - "White Supremacist"
    And latest - "Lunatic"

    While all are technically true, it shows how with time they skew the description to generate fear and loathing among the sheeple.
     
  4. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Does MSM = Mainstream Media? In the media's defense, they added relevant information to the description as it was uncovered.

    We know that he was everything in the description plus a few things now, including one of those that refuses to believe that Obama doesn't have a valid US birth certificate, even though it has been produced, and can even be freely seen here. If the case can be made that the "MSM" is trying to generate fear and loathing, the same case could just as easily be made that Hannity and Limbaugh, constantly harping on this crap generates fear and loathing and incites pieces of crap like this guy into action.

    Now, because of this nutjob, we've got a dead security officer.
     
  5. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg

    yeah I''ve got word perfect and photo shop too...


    In my somewhat addled Humble opinion: The "president doesn't have the right or power to fire a ceo ofa private corporation and stuff the board of directors
    with his choices...Nor appoint "czar's" which report only to him to head every major facet of the economy..(I isuppose I couldbe wrong by some obscure legal principle not enacted since Lincoln had half a country on his hands).
     
  6. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There's a lot of controversy regarding Obama's birth certificate. And some of the claims are rather ugly and are being presented in a very nasty way. I'm not taking a stand either way, I'm just presenting information here that I find to be credible. Take a look at the photos and decide for yourself if this is the real Barack Obama birth certificate.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element47> --><!-- <hs:element48> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element48> --><!-- <hs:element49> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I assume that this is the same as the Obama birth certificate being hold in the picture to the left that has been claimed to be the original.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element49> --><!-- <hs:element50> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here's some information put out by FactCheck.org:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
    [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Summary
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Analysis
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]It isn't signed.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The certificate number is blacked out.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The photos haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element50> --><!-- <hs:element51> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element51> --><!-- <hs:element52> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here's a sample of a Hawaii birth certificate to compare with the Obama birth certificate.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element52> --><!-- <hs:element55> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element55> --><!-- <hs:element56> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element56> --><!-- <hs:element57> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element57> --><!-- <hs:element58> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element58> --><!-- <hs:element59> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element59> --><!-- <hs:element60> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The original Obama birth certificate folded to reveal detail.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element60> --><!-- <hs:element61> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal serial number.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element61> --><!-- <hs:element62> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal quality of text.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element62> --><!-- <hs:element63> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal stamp and signature.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element63> --><!-- <hs:element64> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal raised seal.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element64> --><!-- <hs:element65> --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=769 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#fff8e6 colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff8e6>[​IMG]</TD><TD bgColor=#fdedc0>[​IMG]</TD><TD bgColor=#948b70>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[​IMG]</TD><TD bgColor=#948b70 colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <!-- </hs:element65> --><!-- <hs:element66> -->
    <!-- </hs:element66> --><!-- <hs:element67> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element67> --><!-- <hs:element68> -->
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SEE PHOTOS OF THE NEW OBAMA DOG BO!
    [/FONT]​

    <!-- </hs:element68> --><!-- <hs:element69> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element69> --><!-- <hs:element70> -->
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SEE PHOTOS OF THE NEW OBAMA DOG BO!
    [/FONT]​

    <!-- </hs:element70> --><!-- <hs:element71> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element71> --><!-- <hs:element72> -->
    <!-- </hs:element72> --><!-- <hs:footer> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There's a lot of controversy regarding Obama's birth certificate. And some of the claims are rather ugly and are being presented in a very nasty way. I'm not taking a stand either way, I'm just presenting information here that I find to be credible. Take a look at the photos and decide for yourself if this is the real Barack Obama birth certificate.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element47> --><!-- <hs:element48> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element48> --><!-- <hs:element49> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I assume that this is the same as the Obama birth certificate being hold in the picture to the left that has been claimed to be the original.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element49> --><!-- <hs:element50> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here's some information put out by FactCheck.org:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
    [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Summary
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Analysis
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]It isn't signed.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The certificate number is blacked out.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG]The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The photos haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"?
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element50> --><!-- <hs:element51> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element51> --><!-- <hs:element52> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here's a sample of a Hawaii birth certificate to compare with the Obama birth certificate.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element52> --><!-- <hs:element55> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element55> --><!-- <hs:element56> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element56> --><!-- <hs:element57> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element57> --><!-- <hs:element58> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element58> --><!-- <hs:element59> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element59> --><!-- <hs:element60> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The original Obama birth certificate folded to reveal detail.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element60> --><!-- <hs:element61> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal serial number.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element61> --><!-- <hs:element62> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal quality of text.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element62> --><!-- <hs:element63> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal stamp and signature.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element63> --><!-- <hs:element64> -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Blowup of Obama birth certificate to reveal raised seal.
    [/FONT]

    <!-- </hs:element64> --><!-- <hs:element65> --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=769 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#fff8e6 colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff8e6>[​IMG]</TD><TD bgColor=#fdedc0>[​IMG]</TD><TD bgColor=#948b70>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[​IMG]</TD><TD bgColor=#948b70 colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <!-- </hs:element65> --><!-- <hs:element66> -->
    <!-- </hs:element66> --><!-- <hs:element67> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element67> --><!-- <hs:element68> -->
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SEE PHOTOS OF THE NEW OBAMA DOG BO!
    [/FONT]​

    <!-- </hs:element68> --><!-- <hs:element69> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element69> --><!-- <hs:element70> -->
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SEE PHOTOS OF THE NEW OBAMA DOG BO!
    [/FONT]​

    <!-- </hs:element70> --><!-- <hs:element71> -->[​IMG]
    <!-- </hs:element71> --><!-- <hs:element72> -->
    <!-- </hs:element72> --><!-- <hs:footer> --><!-- </hs:footer> --><!-- <hs:realtracker> --><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> <!-- var id='';var res='';var partnerid=90006; var user='1753995446'; var pp='Obama-Birth-Certificate-Photos'; function f(s){f2(s)}; function f2(s){document.write('[​IMG]')}; //--> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="/~site/Scripts_ExternalRedirect/ExternalRedirect.dll?CMD=CMDGetJavaScript&H_SITEID=RTK1&H_AltURL=%2F%7Esite%2Frealtracker%2Frt_s90022.js&HSGOTOURL=http%3A%2F%2Flayout1.realtracker.com%2Fincludes%2Frt_s90022a.js" type=text/javascript> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> <!-- f('/~site/Scripts_ExternalRedirect/ExternalRedirect.dll?CMD=CMDGotoURL&H_SITEID=RTK1&H_AltURL=%2f%7esite%2ftp.gif&H_HSGOTOURL=http%3a%2f%2fweb4.realtracker.com%2fnetpoll%2fimulti.asp&user='+escape(user)+'&pn='+escape(partnerid)+'&pp='+escape(pp)+'&js=1&to=-360&userurl='+escape(location.href)+res); //--> </SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT> [​IMG] </NOSCRIPT><!-- </hs:realtracker> --><!-- </hs:footer> --><!-- <hs:realtracker> --><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> <!-- var id='';var res='';var partnerid=90006; var user='1753995446'; var pp='Obama-Birth-Certificate-Photos'; function f(s){f2(s)}; function f2(s){document.write('[​IMG]')}; //--> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="/~site/Scripts_ExternalRedirect/ExternalRedirect.dll?CMD=CMDGetJavaScript&H_SITEID=RTK1&H_AltURL=%2F%7Esite%2Frealtracker%2Frt_s90022.js&HSGOTOURL=http%3A%2F%2Flayout1.realtracker.com%2Fincludes%2Frt_s90022a.js" type=text/javascript> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> <!-- f('/~site/Scripts_ExternalRedirect/ExternalRedirect.dll?CMD=CMDGotoURL&H_SITEID=RTK1&H_AltURL=%2f%7esite%2ftp.gif&H_HSGOTOURL=http%3a%2f%2fweb4.realtracker.com%2fnetpoll%2fimulti.asp&user='+escape(user)+'&pn='+escape(partnerid)+'&pp='+escape(pp)+'&js=1&to=-360&userurl='+escape(location.href)+res); //--> </SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT> [​IMG] </NOSCRIPT><!-- </hs:realtracker> -->
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I'll give them marks for updates that add to and correct previous reporting (as long as the updates are noted as updated and corrected!) My problem with the MSM is the rush to report anything, factually complete or not, and without some sort of mention that the story is not verified. Yes, there are rewards for being first, but in my MT head, those rewards are ephemeral in that incorrect first is liable to create a false impression in people's minds about what really happened, and that falseness will be perpetuated. Were it me (obviously it ain't) I'd go for an accurate and complete report, even if second. Nobel prizes don't get awarded for incorrectness.

    Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly and many others are often equally guilty of a rush to judgment; of selecting sound bites to go off with. There are not too many things I'd take at face value right off the bat. Fire and loud noises in my living room at 2 AM both qualify.

    In this case, the perp was clearly a loon from the gitgo. We can only wish it was him that got himself dead instead of the guard. So we are now going to spend public treasure to bring an 88 year old loon back to health so we can spend public treasure on trying him for the obvious crimes, and that will go on as long as he lives.

    Some things just are not worth doing.

    [coffee2]
     
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7