Here we go again: Vaccines

AMEN...And what a perversion it is! Two things that were supposed to sustain human kind, drugs and food, are the things that are killing us!
We pay the governments, doctors, pharma, "scientists" and other parasitic entities to kill us by the billions...

 

Ah interesting.............

Didn't we already discuss the DECREASE in infant mortality? I would love to see some sort of study to back up this "shorter life". And of, course I will bring this back- are we sicker, or better at diagnosis?

I completely agree with you on the wealth of doctors and the corruption there.

I'm not dead.... yet Neither are you. I guess to win this argument, we will have to wait and see
​

 

I think from now on, I am going to finish every response or quote from with "I'm still alive" just so you know where we are with this one.

I'm still alive.

 

Exactly what decrease in infant mortality are we talking about? In US, US and EU, or World? Checked the stats in Africa, Asia and South America lately? Are you expecting a "study" where "scientists" from Big Pharma will say "Upss...sorry...looks like we've been killing you all these years!"...
Better at diagnosis? Hmmm...lets see...You are angry=you are mentally ill...you want to eat organic and healthy food=you are mentally ill....your kid is a bit lively and fast=kid is ill and give him brain damaging drugs...winter approaches=if you are not ill, you will be so, have a couple of vaccines...we made new bacteria=you will get it, have a vaccine, it doesn't matter its not a virus...your kid is autistic=we'll just sterilize him so he can't spred that nasty autism....you have cancer=we'll pretend we don't know the cause and fill you with acid that kills all cells indiscriminately...you're lonely=you are mentally ill, go to a shrink and get pumped on meds...we need terrorists=no problem, we scan your brain and find you are a terrorist...you ate too much=no problem, you have gastritis which can cause ulcer, so, have some meds...you have headache=have some Tylenol, so what if it's dangerous....

My late grandpa said once, after we forcibly dragged him to the doctor for a check up: "My son, I didn't know I was this sick untill the doctor told me!..I would live sick for years and wouldn't be aware just how sick i am!"
That's when I stopped going to the doctors....
You want diagnosis? Easiest thing in the world...
Go see a doctor and lie that you have a problem....he'll do the EKG, EEG, MRI, and some other scientific things and then he will prescribe you something!...ANYTHING!
Do you really think you can get out of doctors office healthy?!?!
PUHLEASEE!!!

 

I have frequent appointments with docs and regular physicals. Still healthy as a horse with a resting hear rate near coma levels. Even after the evil shots.

Here is the US:
Google - public data

Can't search "Africa" as a whole. Here is some examples:

Zimbabwae:
Google - public data

Congo
Google - public data

Ethiopia:
Google - public data

Ghana:
Google - public data

All the above example show a downward trend. None are close to the US where vaccines are more common. Only Congo shows any upward trend. Not sure what the reason is, probably war in recent decades.

Again, can't show "South America". Here are some from S. America:

El Salvador:
Google - public data

Ecuador:
Google - public data

Costa Rica:
Google - public data

Chile:
Google - public data

Columbia:
Google - public data

All the South American counties above have downward trends.

What I have learned from this:

1) Your google-fu is weak
2) African countries have an infant mortality somewhere in the 20s
3) S. American countries have infant mortality somewhere in the teens.
4) The two above points likely indicate that the more developed a country gets, the better the infant mortality rate gets. For example, S. America is more developed than Africa- this shows in terms of infant mortality- likely directly linked to vaccination programs among other health care programs.

And, yes. I do expect you to list some sort of study or "proof" for outrageous claims that generally known not to be the case. If you throw out a wild ass accusation, back it up.

5) Arguing with a tin-foil wearer is generally fruitless because they can always end an argument with "you can trust what the man tells you".

Calling Bane, Earth to Bane, have you landed...............

All in good fun


ETA: This one is just for you Bane- US and Serbia infant mortality rates:
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds...+rate#met=sp_dyn_imrt_in&idim=country:USA:SRB
What conclusions would you draw from this information.

 

Ummmm...tells me that Serbia has lower mortality rate then US....so does Croatia and Slovenia...Sooo...US has higher infant mortality rate than Serbia, which was attacked and bombed by US with uranium shells, had a war for years, and is much poorer than US...Nice google-fu! Thanks! Can you teach me? Please?

 

Indeed, not arguing that point. Of course, we are talking about infant mortality, not mortality. I am sure to some degree the listed developed countries above did kill infants, but I am sure the majority of the statistics are adults being killed. You and I both have been to IZ Brokor- ever killed any babies? I already know the answer, so please don't take offense to such a sh*t question.

From YOUR article:

This argument is as old as modern medicine. That's easy google-fu.
Here is another one that describes both sides in Time:
Doctors Versus Midwives: The Birth Wars Rage On - TIME
I did read Foxfire 2 recently. It covers Midwifing. Very interesting read. What I liked is that it is a series of interviews from midwifes that were doing the business when it was common and hospital births weren't. After reading it, it's clear why hospitals took this process. Simply put, the doctors have a better track record....

To address the numbers that you mentioned. Maybe a look at the population difference between Finland and the US will shed some light:
US- 309,958,000
Finland- 5,365,900
List of countries by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maybe we can also take into account birth rate:
13.82/1000
10.38/1000
Birth rate - Country Comparison

When these figures are looked at side by side, we can see the the number of births in the US is far more than a country like Finland. This could explain the difference. The US is a much larger pool than Finland.

ETA: I have nothing against midwifes. I would prefer my wife use a midwife, but a car accident at a young age made that impossible. A C-section was our only option for our two kids. Most women I talk to say they couldn't handle the pain from a natural birth. I'm not one to say one way or the other. This is a safe stance for any man out there (especially if you are married or intend to marry in the next millennium).

I'm still alive.

 

I guess we all see what we want to see. I see a sharp drop since 1985 probably due to the ending of war (or waning population in certain areas from death and refugee migration). We also have to take into account UN (primarily US led) MEDCAPs with massive amounts of US medical treatment. Including vaccinations. A pattern that has been carried over by the US to operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Primarily, though, because as the war ended the professionals that fled may have come back. This return may account for the difference??

Of course, you are only looking at the end state. Trying reading all the information. There was a drop after 1985. Is it because of a decrease in modern medicine there? Or was it because of an increase? I am glad you have a great infant mortality rate. Good for you. The question is- what is the reason?

 

MEDCAPS??? In Serbia??? ROFL!...that didn't happen! Do some google-fu and see...US went to Kosovo, not Serbia! US or UN never set one foot in Serbia!
They just bombed Serbia. And vaccines? Do you really think that any Balkan country would use any other vaccines but their own??? Do you think that they would trust vaccines from country that attacked them? Would you accept Iraqi vaccines (even they didn't attack US)?

No Serbs fled the country, only Albanians fled Kosovo and went to Macedonia...over 300.000 of them! And Macedonia fed them, housed them and gave them medical assistance! And UN and US didn't move a finger to help, even though they bombed them out with uranium shells and radioactively polluted their soil and water! Macedonia roads were so badly damaged by "UN" vehicles, that even today they aren't fixed completely! Our lakes are full with unexploded missiles and bombs from US planes that were ditching them before damaged emergency landing on Macedonia airports!
And do you know what was destroyed of military assets in Serbia? Nothing!...except state TV, Chinese Embassy and Children Hospital!...
And Serbs even shot down two "invisible" planes, one F-117, nicely filmed and documented, and one B-2 bomber (among other F's and T-10s). ..
Of course, Serbs apologized for those planes later...
They said: "We are very sorry, but we didn't know...nobody told us they were invisible"...
And they sold back one pilot for 3 mils...you know, the one that survived "eating bugs and drinking morning dew", that was later publicly decorated...
And they gave to Russia and China parts of the "invisible" plane......I can even describe you in details what really happened...

Anyway, even if there is a sharp drop, for whatever reason, why is their mortality lower than US? US was never bombed? I can assure you that US vaccines had nothing to do with Serbia lower mortality! And if those vaccines are so good, how come Africa has huge mortality with all those meds and help they receive from UN and US? Or do they get some "other" vaccines? You can't tell me that US provides medical care and vaccinations all over the world for free when they leave their own citizens to die because they can't pay for the treatment. And you can't say that they give proper vaccines to countries they bomb and to poor and hungry in Africa...Just watch Bill Gates public speeches!
If you have that much faith in US healthcare, then you'll be among the first there to receive the brand new "superbug" "vaccine" (or whatever it is)?
BTW...did you receive the "swine flu" nasal vaccine? Or your kids? Any of your family did?

I do agree about one thing...we do see what we want to see...

 

Whoa killer, where did I mention Serbia MEDCAPs? Read very carefully. We were talking Balkans..... not Serbia. You are the one that brought up every Balkan state in your previous post.

I think you need to relax a bit. You seem a bit heated.

Now back to the question I originally asked....

Is there a massive dilapidation in the hospitals in the Balkans that has led to a decrease in the infant mortality rate?

If there hasn't been, and I am correct in my belief that there has been an increase in modern medicine there, then the low infant mortality rate is likely directly related to that modern medicine. Look at it objectively and stop comparing the two. The US is not Serbia. The only parallels we can draw are that something has caused that drop in infant mortality. What is it?

ETA:

That is ******** not true. I dated one for about year in college. Her whole family (Serbian) fled. I had many meals with an extended family of Serbians that all settled in my hometown.

Clearly you don't know us that well. I would say that is exactly what we do.... to our own demise.

Yes. I did receive it.

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ETA: Her mother had the best damn homemade bread. She always had a loaf hot whenever she expected me.
​

 

Nope...I'm not heated...I thought we were talking about Serbia, since you compared it with US...
Of course there was dilapidation in the hospitals in the Balkans...It was war...but then the mortality should have increased, not decrease!
I don't think that anything really "caused" the drop...the drop was continuous through the years. If the war had some effect, it should have caused increase in mortality....large one...and it didn't.
I think it was just going down naturally...
And about no Serbs living the country is an outright lie? People leave every day from every country...even US. This year alone over 500 US citizens gave up their citizenship and went abroad...for tax reasons. It is normal that some Serbs left the country, for one reason or another.... But not 300.000 like Albanians did! So, when I said no Serbs left I meant left like emigrating, or running away from the war in large numbers...
I don't think that makes me an outright liar, but thanks anyway....

 

Well...you have more guts than me...I wouldn't...

And yes...making home bread is something all girls were required to know...not so these last 10 years thou...

 

I take back the liar comment. That was a bit harsh. Sorry. You are right in that people migrate all the time. Only problem is, when you ask a Serbian in the US why they left, the answer you get is "the war".

I think what you have brought up about the dilapidation of the hospitals is very interesting. I think you have missed the point on mortality. We are talking about infant mortality- not mortality in general. If we looked at general mortality, clearly there would be a drop like every other human conflict in history. That needs no explanation. When there is war, populations usually see a dip.

What we are looking at is infant mortality. While I am sure that some infants died in the conflict (there is evidence), more adults are killed than infants. That may be part of the reason why the infant mortality stayed the same, but the general mortality rate saw some dip.

My point is, in Serbia there has been an increase in modern medicine (especially since the war) and a continued decrease in infant mortality. Do you see the parallel there?

ETA:
Here is a link that reads differently for the infant mortality in Serbia. It reads 12.52 compared to the US's 6.7.
http://www.indexmundi.com/serbia_and_montenegro/infant_mortality_rate.html
I'm not sure what the discrepancy here is. I couldn't tell you which is higher. The bottom line is that we are both way lower than Africa (for example) and a lot further along in modern medicine. I would throw out comparing the two because of the differences in population numbers. Comparing a pool of 20 with a pool of 2 should never be statistically done. That is why I say you can't compare the US to Serbia or even Finland. Your margin of error is greatly increased because of the difference in pool size. I haven't done stats in over 7 years.... I have a headache.

This one reads 11.7/1000:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

This one is really interesting:
http://www.euro.who.int/en/where-we-work/member-states/serbia/facts-and-figures

Note that the large drop in infant mortality occurs after 1998... the war being over....
<table id="" style="border: 1px solid; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent; width: 95%; height: 109px;" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" rules="all"><thead><tr><th id="_td0_0" style="" align="left">Indicator</th> <th id="_td0_1" style="" align="right">1998 values</th> <th id="_td0_2" style="" align="right">2008 values</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td id="_td1_0" style="">Life expectancy at birth (years)</td> <td id="_td1_1" style="" align="right">71.7 (males, 69; females, 74.5)</td> <td id="_td1_2" style="" align="right">73.9 (males, 71.3; females, 76.6)</td> </tr> <tr> <td id="_td2_0" style="">Infant mortality per 1000 population</td> <td id="_td2_1" style="" align="right">11.56</td> <td id="_td2_2" style="" align="right">6.66</td> </tr> <tr> <td id="_td3_0" style="">Under-5 mortality per 1000 live births</td> <td id="_td3_1" style="" align="right">13.26</td> <td id="_td3_2" style="" align="right">7.75</td> </tr> <tr> <td id="_td4_0" style="">Maternal mortality ratio per 100 000 live births</td> <td id="_td4_1" style="" align="right">11.79</td> <td id="_td4_2" style="" align="right">14.48*</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

No problem pal...It's natural that some families left because of the war...always happened, always will...
About mortality...my point was that in war, people die, and that increases deaths (mortality), infant and total. When you have dilapidation in the health care system, both mortalities should go up and population takes a dip... if the war was the cause for increase of mortality.
On those charts, no spike up is seen, so no increase in mortality! Logically, war didn't cause higher infant deaths in Serbia (no way to tell about Balkans).

The discrepancy you see is easily explained...look what the link says: Serbia AND Montenegro!...both together!
You're right about statistical problem...It shouldn't be compared like that, but imagine if someone tried to take into account things like if all deaths were reported, or in US if all deaths were of US citizens, or non-citizens are included and....shoot...now I'm getting a headache...

Cheers!

 

I must have edited while you were typing. What about these:

This one reads 11.7/1000:
List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This one is really interesting:
WHO/Europe | Facts and figures

Note that the large drop in infant mortality occurs after 1998... the war being over....
<table id="" style="border: 1px solid; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent; width: 95%; height: 109px;" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" rules="all"><tbody>Table 1. Selected statistics: Serbia

<table id="" style="border: 1px solid; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent; width: 95%; height: 109px;" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" rules="all"> <thead> <tr> <th id="_td0_0" style="" align="left">Indicator</th> <th id="_td0_1" style="" align="right">1998 values</th> <th id="_td0_2" style="" align="right">2008 values</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td id="_td1_0" style="">Life expectancy at birth (years)</td> <td id="_td1_1" style="" align="right">71.7 (males, 69; females, 74.5)</td> <td id="_td1_2" style="" align="right">73.9 (males, 71.3; females, 76.6)</td> </tr> <tr> <td id="_td2_0" style="">Infant mortality per 1000 population</td> <td id="_td2_1" style="" align="right">11.56</td> <td id="_td2_2" style="" align="right">6.66</td> </tr> <tr> <td id="_td3_0" style="">Under-5 mortality per 1000 live births</td> <td id="_td3_1" style="" align="right">13.26</td> <td id="_td3_2" style="" align="right">7.75</td> </tr> <tr> <td id="_td4_0" style="">Maternal mortality ratio per 100 000 live births</td> <td id="_td4_1" style="" align="right">11.79</td> <td id="_td4_2" style="" align="right">14.48*</td></tr></tbody></table>



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