History Repeats Itself

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by tacmotusn, Oct 16, 2014.


  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    History repeats itself…and every American should really be upset at our do nothing congress !!


    US Marine Corps History
    Including how the term ‘Leatherneck’ came to be . .

    Most Americans are unaware of the fact that over two hundred years ago,
    the United States had declared war on Islam, and Thomas Jefferson led
    the charge!
    At the height of the eighteenth century, Muslim pirates were the
    terror of the Mediterranean and a large area of the North Atlantic. They
    attacked every ship in sight, and held the crews for exorbitant
    ransoms. Those taken hostage were subjected to barbaric treatment
    and wrote heart breaking letters home, begging their government and
    family members to pay whatever their Mohammedan captors
    demanded.

    These extortionists of the high seas represented the Islamic nations
    of Tripoli, Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers – collectively referred to as the Barbary Coast –
    and presented a dangerous and unprovoked threat to the new American Republic.

    Before the Revolutionary War, U.S. merchant ships had been under the protection of Great Britain. When the U.S. declared its independence and entered into war, the ships of the United States were protected by France. However, once the war was won, America had to
    protect its own fleets. Thus, the birth of the U.S. Navy.
    Beginning in1784, seventeen years before he would become president,
    Thomas Jefferson became America’s Minister to France. That same year, the
    U.S. Congress sought to appease its Muslim adversaries by following in the footsteps of European nations who paid bribes to the Barbary States, rather than engaging them in war.

    In July of 1785, Algerian pirates captured American ships,
    and the Dey of Algiers demanded an unheard-of
    ransom of $60,000. It was a plain and simple case of extortion,
    and Thomas Jefferson was vehemently opposed to any further
    payments. Instead, he proposed to Congress the formation of a
    coalition of allied nations who together could force the Islamic states
    into peace. A disinterested Congress decided to pay the ransom.

    In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with Tripoli’s ambassador
    to Great Britain to ask by what right his nation attacked American ships and enslaved
    American citizens, and why Muslims held so much hostility towards
    America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

    The two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul
    Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it
    was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have
    acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and
    duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found,
    and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every
    Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

    Despite this stunning admission of premeditated violence on non-Muslim
    nations,as well as the objections of many notable American leaders, including
    George Washington, who warned that caving in was both wrong and would
    only further embolden the enemy, for the following fifteen years, the
    American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage
    of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and
    tribute amounted to over twenty percent of the United States government annual revenues in
    1800.

    Jefferson was disgusted. Shortly after his being
    sworn in as the third President of the United States in 1801, the Pasha
    of Tripoli sent him a note demanding the immediate payment of $225,000
    plus $25,000 a year for every year forthcoming. That changed
    everything.

    Jefferson let the Pasha know, in no uncertain terms,
    what he could do with his demand. The Pasha responded by cutting
    down the flagpole at the American consulate and declared war on the
    United States. Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers immediately followed suit.
    Jefferson, until now, had been against America raising a
    naval force for anything beyond coastal defense, but having watched his
    nation be cowed by Islamic thuggery for long enough, decided that it
    was finally time to meet force with force.

    He dispatched a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean and taught the Muslim nations of the
    Barbary Coast a lesson he hoped they would never forget. Congress
    authorized Jefferson to empower U.S. ships to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli and to “cause to be done all other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war would justify”.

    When Algiers and Tunis, who were both accustomed to American cowardice
    and acquiescence, saw the newly independent United States had both the will
    and the might to strike back, they quickly abandoned their allegiance
    toTripoli.
    The war with Tripoli lasted for four more years, and raged up again in 1815. The bravery of the U.S. Marine Corps in these wars led to the line “to the shores of Tripoli” in the
    Marine Hymn, They would forever be known as “leathernecks” for the
    leather collars of their uniforms, designed to prevent their heads from
    being cut off by the Muslim scimitars when boarding enemy ships.

    Islam, and what its Barbary followers justified doing in the name of their prophet and their god, disturbed Jefferson quite deeply. America had a tradition of religious tolerance, the
    fact that Jefferson, himself, had co-authored the Virginia Statute for
    Religious Freedom, but fundamentalist Islam was like no other religion
    the world had ever seen. A religion based on supremacism, whose
    holy book not only condoned but mandated violence against unbelievers
    was unacceptable to him.

    His greatest fear was that someday this
    brand of Islam would return and pose an even greater threat to the United States.

    This should bother every American. That the Islams
    have brought about women-only classes and swimming times at
    taxpayer-funded universities and public pools; that Christians, Jews,
    and Hindus have been banned from serving on juries where Muslim
    defendants are being judged, Piggy banks and Porky Pig tissue dispensers
    have been banned from workplaces because they offend Islamist
    sensibilities. Ice cream has been discontinued at certain Burger
    King locations because the picture on the wrapper looks similar to the
    Arabic script for Allah, public schools are pulling pork from
    their menus, on and on in the newspapers….

    It’s death by a thousand cuts, or inch-by-inch as some refer to it,
    and most Americans have no idea that this battle is being waged every
    day across America. By not fighting back, by allowing groups to obfuscate
    what is really happening, and not insisting that the Islamists adapt to
    our own culture, the United States is cutting its own throat with a
    politically correct knife, and helping to further the Islamists agenda.
    Sadly, it appears that today’s America would rather be politically
    correct than victorious.

    Any doubts, just Google Thomas Jefferson vs the Muslim World
     
  2. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    Some of that i knew from history classes in high school, however much of tacmotusn posted i had no idea. That is some powerful stuff. Thank you for the post.
     
    tacmotusn likes this.
  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    The truly sad thing is, you can bet the farm under common core curriculum where George Washington is designated a terrorist, that Thomas Jefferson will be vilified for attacking believers of this religion of peace.
    .
    Vote! Vote for those who are proud of speaking English, of old Glory (our flag), those who are against common core, those who believe in the Law of the Land, and rule of law, Christmas, freedom of speech, and equal justice before the law.
     
  4. wastelander

    wastelander Bad English, bare with me

    Good reading, thanks Tac
     
  5. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Political correctness will kill us all.
     
  6. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    One hates to quibble, but while the United States did, in a fashion, declare war on the Barbary Pirates, it did not, in fact, declare war on Islam. And from a recent book on the subject of Jefferson and Islam - Thomas Jefferson’s Quran: How Islam Shaped the Founders -

    "Though Jefferson was a harsh critic of Islam as a religion (as he was of all Abrahamic religions) and of the hostage-taking and ransom-seeking practices of Muslim states in the Mediterranean (the “Barbary Pirates,” against whom he unsuccessfully tried to organize a Euro-American naval alliance), he also was a staunch advocate of religious freedom even for those falling outside the conventional spectrum of Protestant Christian believers, including Catholics, Jews, and Muslims." (emphasis mine)

    Jefferson owned, and read, a copy of the Qur'an, as he did the Bible. He, in fact, rewrote the New Testament to create what is known as the "Jeffersonian Bible." What he wrote out of his Bible was every mention of miracles, resurrection, and any reference hinting that Jesus was divine; all of which he considered dubious, to say the least. He was a Christian, but not in a way that would please most Christians today.

    Jefferson wrote that “Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God.” He called the writers of the New Testament “ignorant, unlettered men” who produced “superstitions, fanaticisms, and fabrications.” He called the Apostle Paul the “first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.” He dismissed the concept of the Trinity as “mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.” Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Finally, the Treaty of Tripoli, which ended the state of war with the Barbary Pirates states:
    "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

    @tacmotusn , you have my respect; but that original post does not stand up well to critical review.
     
  7. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I know that mine is a minority opinion on Islam, and mine is a minority experience with Muslims. When most folks on this site hear the word "Muslim," they envision a violent, radical fundamentalist, bent on the destruction of America. When I hear the word "Muslim," I envision a young Marine named Taimur, a student of mine, to whom I was teaching the cryptanalytic aspects of the Arabic language. He had grown up in a middle class neighborhood in L.A.; his father a non-observant Muslim who ran a pizzeria.

    When I met him, he was searching for a deeper meaning in life, and looked to Islam for that meaning. I remember laughing in class when, as a result of Islamic dietary laws, he agonized over not being able to eat his absolute favorite food in the world - Pepperoni Pizza, not finding any local pizzeria which had non-pork pepperoni.

    After he graduated my course, shortly after 9/11, his efforts provided critical intelligence information on Taliban and AlQaeda insurgents, for whom he felt an utter disgust. His native fluency in Pashtu, Urdu, and Arabic made him a highly sought after intelligence operator during his tour in the Marines. Following his time in the Marines, I wrote a letter of recommendation for him when he was commissioned as an Air Force officer; becoming an intelligence officer. While in the Air Force, he completed his pre-med, and completed med school upon leaving the Air Force. Now, he's a medical doctor.

    His wife is (literally) a rocket scientist, working at Goddard, and she doesn't wear a burka or a hijab. They just had their second daughter. They are a good Muslim family. Taimur is devout in his religious convictions, and raises his daughters to be good Muslim women.

    When I hear "Muslim," the faces I see are his and his family's, and those of a hundred other good Muslim people with whom I have interacted over the years, many of whom are still good friends. I don't necessarily envision the idiots of Al Qaeda or the Islamic State. Though those people claim the title "Muslim," they are no more Muslim than the blood-thirsty fanatics of the crusades, or pedophile priests, are Christian. Claiming a title doesn't make it so.

    The religious writings of all of the Abrahamic religions contain some pretty bloody and violent content; but it is up to the individual to decide what he wants to get out of the Bible or Qur'an. If he goes in looking for wisdom and solace, he'll find those things. If he is looking for justification for murder and mayhem, he will find those things. Religion, including Christianity or Islam, has often been used as an excuse for the wickedness of man, but it is just that - an excuse. Man kills man due to a thirst for power and control, or due to his own vile impulses, not because he is a Christian or Muslim.

    I don't have a particular affinity for Islam, any more than I do for Christianity. I just have a hard time keeping my mouth closed when I hear any group being maligned. I'd speak up for Christians, Jews, Women, Short People, or Middle Aged White Men just as quickly. Hell, I'd even defend a Sailor. ;)
     
  8. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Thanks mouse.
     
  9. wastelander

    wastelander Bad English, bare with me

    I think that's the right idea about the Abrahamic religions in general. I went to sunday school and did all that as a kid but everytime I have ever heard someone say that the bible in general and the old testament in particular has any answers to life I wonder what is wrong with them. Is it drugs? I have tried the lighter ones and I thought I got good stuff, but all of the sudden I feel ripped off. I want the bible-stash.

    Even if that particular person is not a hatemonger he or she is sure showing his support to all the killing that is going on in the world in the name of that damn plague that book symbolizes.

    And the stupidity. How can someone bring a child to church? My grandma didn't know better, bless her. Stupidity I say because a modern man should know better. What faschinates me is that the very same people can be so intelligent in other ways. I am in a way HOPING that they are liars and haven't read the damn thing. For them, not to waste their lives living a lie, and for coming generations, so they wont get infected with their thoughts and continue to destroy the world.

    (If you feel offended, sorry. There's bigger problems in the world than me. Your neighburs pets maybe ran over your yard and you need to stone him to death before you burn him at the gates of the city or something other constructive)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
    chelloveck and tulianr like this.
  10. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Sunni and Shi'ite(or Shia) are 2 major sects of Islam. There are others as well. Their main religious text, the Kuran or Koran or whatever spelling you would like to use, has some very disturbing passages that the terrorists use to wage jihad on unbelievers (infidels). It would seem the Sunnis are a much more moderate group as a whole, and the Shia seem to support and have spawned the radical evil bastards many of us would like to feed to the hogs. I am sick and tired of seeing American blood shed in any of these raghead countries. Don't get me started on Sharia Law outside of Islamic Nations that do not even allow a bible in possession within their country. Sharia law is not the Law of the Land in the USA, and never should be. If Muslims in the USA can't deal with that they can Migrate elsewhere.
     
  11. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I have a few family members who are Muslim. They would never even try to impress their ways on me. We respect each other's beliefs. It is not a subject we share openly, it simply is part of who they are. No problem there.
    But all I hear, and all I see of Muslims in the rest of the world, is the ones killing my kind, because they feel that have the right to do so. Pealceful Muslims truly do exist . But they don't make "head" lines when they want to make a point. Nor do they attack innocents because "I'm muslim, that is what we do." (Quote from the animal who decapitated one woman, and stabbed another).
    Proper Muslims do not stand out as a threat. But a wolf wearing sheep's skin, kills many sheep, until the Shepard's bullet stops him. Wolves are all the news covers.
     
  12. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I don't go looking for trouble, I would just as soon avoid it. I am aware of my surroundings almost all the time, and seldom indulge to the point of not being in control. I eyeball most everyone within what I consider to be my threat zone. All of this is pretty much color and ethnic blind. Most of the places I would be I would probably be attacked by a white criminal before a person of color or a radical Muslim. However due to the percentages of incarcerated individuals being persons of color, they would get a closer look no matter where encountered. Ditto someone wearing Arabic ethnic clothing due to all the radical Muslims in name in the news. It is prudent to do so whether politically correct or not.
     
    AmericanRedoubt1776 and tulianr like this.
  13. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Tac, I hate to be the one to point this out, but both Al Qaeda and the Islamic State are Sunni. ;) They both embrace a branch of fundamentalist Islam known as Wahhabism, which is centered on the Saudi peninsula.

    Once upon a time, before Al Qaeda, it would have been a true statement that Shia Islam lent itself more easily to extremism. Most of the population of Iran and terrorist organization Hizbollah are Shia. These days, fundamentalism itself seems to be the determining factor in the radicalization of Islam.
     
  14. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Fine, Radical Islamist of any freakin sect or branch are on my shit list, and if you can't tell the difference between radical and moderate, and you do have both right here in the USA including schools and mosques preaching and teaching hate for us infidels. F**k islam!!! and the camel they rode in on.
     
    tulianr likes this.
  15. wastelander

    wastelander Bad English, bare with me

    Religion schmeligion. They are terrorists, murderers and a direct threat to the very existance of mankind. They could worship the easterbunny for all I care. They are also multiplying and the only way to solve it seems, sadly, to put them back on square one and give them some science to base their existence on. Not thousand year old fairytales.

    They know no better.
     
    tacmotusn likes this.
  16. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Islamic State, Al Qaeda, and the rest of their ilk deserve nothing better than a bullet to the head. I spent a career in the military working against terrorist vermin in the middle east. I'm all for taking down bad guys, but I condemn them for their actions, not their beliefs.
     
  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    so do I. However, their belief says they should kill me, if I am not like them. my belief says turn the other cheek, and if they hear you but will not listen, walk away. I have a little problem with that "ok to kill outsiders" part. so yeah....i do condemn the belief side a bit as well. without the belief side, they don't tend to want my head on a stake.
    we have a rule about that...we call it the second amendment. (you know, that Right to defend yourself?) we tend to take it kind of serious, like.
    and as you well know, thank you for your service.
     
  18. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    I really believe we should use small nukes against the murderous S.O.B.'s, world opinion be dammed.Two or three should do the job. Light them up and stand back to see the reaction. The chinese, the russians, and the indians all have problems with muslims, i am thinking they would not bitch too much. :rolleyes: Then we go and arrest their family members. Lets see how the recruiting goes when they find out we really mean business. When they realize that they are not just sacrificing themselves but also their love ones. To hell the with the political correctness B.S. They need to know that if they were to come to this country to do harm that the consequences would be over the top. Btw the saudis need to punished, they speak out of both sides of their mouth. They want our protection and oil money, but they finance hardcore religious-terrorist schools throughout the middle east. They bear a huge part of the responsibility for a good part of the B.S. in the middle east.
     
  19. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I agree with some of what you've said - elements of the Saudi government have indeed played both sides of the fence for quite a while. Some of them, I have no doubt, are religious zealots. Others, I imagine are holding a tiger by the tail. They have to keep currying favor with the religious establishment, or face being undermined or overthrown.

    It is a threat that has been over the heads of the Saudi royal family since the beginning. If they move too quickly, or radically, the religious establishment, which greatly influences the masses, will turn on them. The Al-Saud family formed a pact with the fundamentalist followers of Ibn Abd-AlWahhab two hundred years ago, and it continues, for better or worse, until today. Theocracies, or even secular governments which rely too heavily on fundamentalist religions, do not handle change and progress well. The house of Al-Saud may one day regret their deal with "the devil."

    America has had our own such "deals" blow up in our faces more than a couple of times. Our deals with Batista, the Shah of Iran, Noriega, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and a thousand others, eventually came back to bite us; and they will continue to do so. We would be a happier nation if we didn't continue to crawl into bed with every dictator who whispered what we wanted to hear into our ears.
     
  20. tekdoggy

    tekdoggy Monkey

    Unfortunately, I have seen so much evil done by muslims all over the world, that now i view them all as terrorists. I don't trust or turn my back on any of them. If I had my way, their so called religion would be banned in the US and all of them would be deported.

    Get off their oil and give them lots of ammo to kill each other in their own countries and finish off whoever is left with some big bombs.

    We just don't need any more of their crazy religious crap, peaceful or not.
     
    tacmotusn likes this.
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