Home Defense

Discussion in 'Humor - Jokes - Games and Diversions' started by Motomom34, Jul 26, 2017.


  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Answer the question and tell me why you chose what you did.

    18221673_756099714549423_2517199707101827042_n.
     
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  2. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    Good enough question, but picking one of those three implies having a gun that can operate on one of them and limits you to that gun caliber if not projo. The question of what gun is best answered first, then by definition the OP question is (almost) answered.
     
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  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Not enough FACTs in evidence, to answer that question... So the answer is "It depends...."
     
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  4. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I hope this helps?

    chart.
     
  5. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Interesting question: What CARTRIDGE (not gun) is best for home defense? A better question is what gun/cartridge combo (NOT caliber) is best. I would go .45 ACP pistol, although I own as many 9mm pistols and various shotguns as .45 ACP pistols.

    So why the .45 pistol? Isn't a 9mm pistol easier to shoot than a .45 ACP? Maybe. Yes the 9mm generally has more rounds than a .45 ACP, and a 1911 9mm feels like feels like a .22 when shot out of a full sized steel framed 1911, but..... there is always a but.

    Since I have been in a few shoot outs, and have been shot, I can tell you that most people are not going to just stand there and wait to get shot again, so your first round had better be a good one. Sure with all the new super bullets "the 9mm is as good as the .45 ACP with hardball" and that is why the FBI went back to the 9mm, well that and the weak sissy boys and small women the FBI has to take can't shoot a full sized pistol. Of course if you go to the IPSC shoots there are 10 year old girls who shoot a full sized 1911 .45s better than many men, but that is another post.

    Well if the new 9mm bullets make it "as good" as the .45, why not shoot 9mm? Well let's put the super duper bullets in the .45 and look at apples to apples. Bigger hole going in, bigger hole going out, with EITHER the good old FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) or new super bullet with .45. If I can't do it with 8 rounds of either in the house, I am in a world of hurt and a few more rounds probably are not going to save me.

    So why not a shotgun (buckshot)? Good question. Too long, too heavy, too much recoil, and at house hold ranges, no easier to hit with. Go to your local range, set up a target at the longest you can shot in you house (10 feet - 30 feet) and then shoot at the target with your shotgun. At that range you have, what, a 3" or less pattern? Yes, THREE INCHES. So much for the "point and you can't miss!" BS I hear all the time. Try running through the doors, swing that shotgun in YOUR house, in the dark. How is that working out for you?

    Bottom line. Go with what makes YOU happy, what YOU got handy and what YOU feels is the best to YOU.
     
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  6. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    The buck is the best option, highest damage and dispersal output. Any of those would go through a wall/unfortified structure, so I am taking that consideration off the table. Beyond that, which ever one you shoot best.
     
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  7. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    Annie Oakley used a 22. She once shot a cigarette out of the mouth (pretty sure it was) Keizer Wilhelm.
    .
    Where I am going with this is,.... whatever you are proficient with and capable of using well. For many petite females a 12ga shotgun is a bit much. I have however trained many petite females to accurately shoot a government colt 45acp semi auto pistol.
    If someone is going to stake their life and that of their loved ones on a firearm, I encourage them to practice often. The better they are with their weapon of choice the more likely they will excel and succeed if and when they have to use it in a life and death situation. Next ..... if you are not carrying it (or can reach out and touch it) when you need it, this whole question doesn't matter much. In that situation, if it is time to shoot or to go see Jesus, a howitzer isn't going to save you.
     
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  8. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    D. 20 gauge low brass rabbit & squirrel #8 shot.
     
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  9. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    Great post, Legion489.

    Indeed it is first a question of when, where, how, & why before you can really get down to the what.

    12-ga 00 buckshot usually doesn't over-penetrate and kill the neighbor's kid halfway down the block. But a 12-gage shotgun usually takes two hands, and is a cumbersome weapon in close quarters. Of course, the sound of a pump shotgun running one up the spout is a excellent inspiration for uninvited guests to go away--very quickly.

    Between 9mm and .45ACP, I take .45ACP hands down. I base that on (among other things) the combat experience my son got in Iraq. The Special Forces guys he was assigned to had switched almost exclusively to .45ACP because exactly one round in the chest would introduce a Jihadi to his 42 virgins, but with a 9MickeyMouse, it took four (4!) in the chest to do the job.

    But regardless, there is no gun that will disappoint if the shooter can put five rounds in an intruder's face. So I think each person should use the largest caliber gun they can shoot well. That way, they may not need to fire the whole five rounds, and they can save a few for the other guy's "associates".

    And, for home defense, either a large-caliber pistol or a VERY short shotgun.

    My strategy to avoid over-penetration is pretty simple: Fire downhill toward the attacker's groin/lower belly. If the round(s) go thru, they'll usually go into the ground within ten yards or so. Likewise, firing two rounds slightly slow will usually put the second one in the top of the attackers head or upper body as the attacker goes down. Aside from the effect of a groin shot on the attacker's morale and motivation, it's also a good way to miss body armor--which many of the bad guys wear these days.

    Oh, BTW, I just have to mention: I shot myself with a 9mm one time and the bullet just bounced off without even breaking the skin.

    Of course, it ricocheted off two sides of the wide ravine I was shooting in and hit me about three seconds after I fired, right in the back. But it still counts: I am 100% bullet proof until, someday, I'm not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  10. GOG

    GOG Grumpy ol' Munky Site Supporter

    Knee mortar.
     
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  11. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    We went with .45acp, .357mag and 12 ga...for primary nighttime response.

    And yes, that's on each side of the bed.
     
  12. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Interesting question, and given the three choices, I say none of them. Now, Given extensive combat experience, The Mighty 9 was/is woefully under powered, tended to ice pick through and through and not cause much terminal damage unless it hit bone! .12 gau Buck is just a bunch of 9 mm round balls in a tight pattern but have even less energy then the lil 9! I also have extensive experience with this and can tell you it isn't as good as people think it is, I once saw a tango take three rounds of buck to the face and he didn't die, it took a couple of .45 to the boiler room to end his fight!!!.45 ACP is proven to put tangos in the ground, but range is limited, and pistol capacity is lower! the "New" kid on the block .40 S/W ( Short and Weak) does do a pretty good job, it's almost a .45 and a bit more then a 9 and it fills the gap between the two, having better power then the 9 and more capacity then the .45! And then we get to my personal favorite, the Nuke Powered 10 mm auto!!! This is the be all, end all of fighting pistol calibers and can be as soft as a .32 auto ( and run .40 short and weak), and as nasty as a .41 magnum with the right combo of bullet and powder. I can blind you and burn you from 10 feet away while blowing your innards through your back, and have the bullet drop on the floor a few feet behind that! It IS that good!!!
    For Motomom34, I say get your hands on as many different pistols as you can and see what you can handle, and I bet if I put a 1911 in 10 mm in your hands, the grin across your face would stretch from one end of the state to the other!!!
    There is a valid point about a short barrel scatter gun as a home defense arm, put that shottey to your shoulder and have some one measure from the tip of your nose to the muzzle end and take note, then draw your fighting iron and extend your arms and draw a bead, now measure again from the tip of your nose to the muzzle and you will find in most cases, the shottey is actually shorter!!! SO for all you that say a street sweeper isn't very good for swinging around inside the home, think again!!!
    Then there is always the Carbine Rifle! with the really good ammo available for the 5.56 today, it makes the AR and others that use this caliber a very viable choice for a fighting inside enclosed spaces!!!
     
  13. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Benelli M1 7+1, IC choke, laser and 12 pellet 00 buck (1290 FPS) is what I use. Have pistols stashed around the house but would go for the shotgun first. I understand it's not as easy to use as a pistol in the house, but with a laser you can shoot it pulled back on your side and a close range chest hit would be devastating.

    Now to pull @Yard Dart 's chain. Of course I would also have the all mighty 10mm in my pocket for backup.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  14. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    One that doesn't get the luvin it once did is .38 Special, and by extension, .357 magnum!!! There WAS a time when these two ruled the fighting iron arena. Bullet selection is the key to the successful employment of these two classics! I once witnessed a dude take 5 rounds of full pop .357 mag to the back and one to the back of the head and he didn't die for several minutes, this was before all the manufactures started to address bullet performance on soft tissue, and I am quite sure that dude would have dropped like a sack of potatoes when hit with any of the newer bullets! BTW, it wasn't the head shot that killed the bad dude, it was one of the rounds that nicked the heart and caused a bleed out! Why the round to the head didn't at least knock him out or liquefy his brain I still have no idea, the impact energy alone should have done that, and crushed his skull, it did nether! I think the shear size of the dude was a serious factor in the lack of performance and not an example of the norm to be expected by that caliber!
     
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  15. apache235

    apache235 Monkey++

    I agree with whatever you feel most comfortable with. There are folks that think a Winchester '73 and .45 Long Colt are the cat's meow, but they are Cowboy Action shooters and that's what they use. Skeet shooters like shotguns. AR 15 with Hornady varmint rounds and suppressed is awesome. Handguns if that's what you use, I like both the 9mm and .45 and I like a light on the gun with as many lumens as you can get, that goes for shotgun, rifle or pistol. The middle of the night with things gone south is not a good time to be grabbing extra stuff - if you have the time to grab anything but your firearm. Oh, a good alarm that will trigger when a door is smashed will give you a little time.
     
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  16. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Back to the OP, any of them will get the job done. Among the pistol rounds, whichever you choose shoot it enough to become proficient. Shoot you actual defensive load as well as ball. If the recoil of the 45 makes it too difficult to make a follow up shot then you need more practice or a lighter recoil round. A 45 that misses does less damage than a 22 that hits. The 9mm is the minimum round I'd recommend assuming a hollow point defensive round like a Speer red dot. Use that pistol regardless of round A LOT so that you will be 100% certain it goes bang every time and your defensive rounds will feed without jam. Clean and inspect even if you haven't used it.

    Also practice your draw with typical day and night wear. We standardized on the S&W M&P series which is a striker fired (either loaded and cocked or not loaded and not cocked) with safeties. When we practice drawing we disengage the safety as we bring the pistol up and engage it again on the way down to reholster.It's automatic now but we still practice.

    The 10mm and .40 are the most effective of the typical pistol rounds. Both rounds have a lot of recoil and can be hard on the pistol unless it's designed for that round. If a revolver get a 357 magnum as you can shoot any of the shorter 38 caliber rounds as well.
     
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  17. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    @Motomom34, interesting question.

    The ago-old 9mm vs .45 ACP debate, possibly combined with the bird shot vs buckshot penetration debate all rolled into one. I'm sorry, it's past my bedtime and this is making my head spin with possibilities.

    "...best for home defense" by whom, and against whom? If it's 3:00 in the morning and there are multiple attackers already inside the home and they had made a lot of noise getting into the house I'd choose 00 buckshot, noise cancelling amplified hearing protection, and a broom & mop. We have drilled on fields of fire inside the house for a couple decades, and know the home well enough to understand cover & concealment with 00 buckshot. (what we can shoot through, and what can't be shot through.)

    I would say all of the above cartridges would be insufficient if the scenario included three 4x4 pickups full of large angry men that just arrived on your front lawn, and they made no effort to avoid running into your car, crashing into the garage and and running over your dog.

    Or did we just got home and are sitting down to supper? In that case it will likely be 9mm and .45 ACP carry guns.

    Bump in the night? Will the dogs give me instant distance estimation? Either of the pistol calibers are at hand and would do the job. Have you shot them in complete darkness and know what to expect in muzzle flash? (Surprisingly, not much more than intermittent sparks) Night sights vs tactical flashlights? It wouldn't be good to shoot college buddy who was just dropping off your kid and was using the guest bathroom.

    I can't help seeing this as the beginning of a deeper discussion of other possibilities...the PMR30, AK47, 10/22. Each has a niche as a home defense firearm, and could be an interesting discussion topic.
     
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  18. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    I mean, I'd be fine with a 9mm or .45 carbine too, just to be fair.
     
  19. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    MM, Well almost none of the 3... I keep my 9mm on the nightstand, but it is loaded with hollow point 6 segment star pattern, my 870 is between the nightstand and bed with a weapon light on it loaded with #4 buck, (more shot than 00) and I will am for the throat. Sorry officer I was aiming for the center of mass, and I'm a bad shot.

    Rancher
     
  20. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    It truly is a difficult question and ask a hundred people you will get a hundred different answers. My answer is my Glock 19 9mm shooting hot hollow points, mainly because I practice a lot with it or my AR with the telescopic stock shorten all the way. I normally keep both next to my bed stand but lately the AR was put away after the range last week and stayed there.

    Personally, I think the two major points are 1) whatever gun will get you a hit the first round and 2) magazine capacity. Criminals normally are not going to stick around for a gun fight and shoot it out. They will run. Now, if someone is coming to kill you, say a real world SHTF scenario, because they want all that freeze-dried food and ammo you have been storing - well - then you definitely need your AR type rifle with its large 30 round magazine.
     
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