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how much can you live on if there is a money market failure

Discussion in 'Back to Basics' started by hank2222, May 22, 2011.

  1. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    Ok here is my question for everyone here ..

    how much can you survive a month let say a money market failure happens in the comeing months or china calls in all the us markers that she holding and wrecks the US economy even farther than it is now ..

    Since i'm single and alone in the house I have sat down and firgure out a basic budget to live off once i gotten to the cabin safe and sound in AZ and called and told the some of the extras like car insurance and letting the tags go once i reached the cabin safe and sound .....

    my place is totally off grid so i'm not haveing to worry about paying for those services and haveing them cut off for the lack of non payement

    my basic monthly budget is broken down as follows to survive on intill things get better

    food-x-$200.oo a month

    misc house hold items like t.p &.dish soap &paper towels & house hold cleaners & trash bags etc etc -x-$15.oo a month

    misc grooming supplies per month-x-$20.oo a month
    cell phone plan--- i need a basic cell phone plan from cricket with long distance calling plan to keep in touch with kids and beening able to dial 911 if i need help..so i have to keep a cell phone -x-$45.oo a month

    personal meds i need-x-$30.oo a month

    tax fund for the land to pay the yearly taxs on the land-x-$50.oo a month intill the fund has reached it goal for payment of the taxs

    cable internet if i can afford it after the failure because it going to be the only way i can get the news and other things i will need to hear about -x-$60.oo

    misc items -x-$180 a month

    grand total of $560.oo a month for the basic monthly output i will need to survive on or $6720.oo a year to survive on intill things has gotten better or it totaly went into the toliet

    my plan is to use the bicycle i have there to go into town for the supplies i need at the local wally world once a week shopping trip ..

    since i retired out on a medical through my former work my health care is not a issuse ..they can never say no to me on that area..

    the first three years after the crash would be a little rough on me because of the basc facts of not haveng a garden in the ground and once it got started in the following years it will not produceing enough to get by on intill the four year of puting in a garden in will it be produceing enough to live on after that ..

    so i'm going also to be useing some of the long term supplies i have stored up to help with the some of the areas like personal grooming and house hold cleaners and food items to survive off ..

    my yearly land taxs are not that so much that i could not save enough out of the yearly fund to not be able to pay them

    i have been buying extra items for the bike in the way of tires & inner tubes & chains and lube and other things that the bike is going to need in the long run as it going to be my main source of transport around the area

    the town is about 8 miles round trip to and from my place so it going to be a great way to get in shape and keep in shape in my older years

    so have you sit down and figure out a budget to keep youself alive if need be if the market fails....
  2. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    been living like that for years
    the market collapses i prolly wont even know it
    hank2222 likes this.
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Hank, this is not meant as a bubble burster but .....

    If the dollar collapses, all bets are off. Think Zimbabwe or the Wiemar Republic. A wheelbarrow of cash won't get you a loaf of bread.

    It will become a barter economy. Taxes? It will be what ever they want. 5x current, 10x? How bout 100 or 1000x current rates.

    A worthless dollar is worth less so you'll need more of them. so if you are getting paid 1000 per month in todays FRN's, what happens when that same amount can only get you food for a week, how about a day? Are your retirement benefits going to increase monthly? Weekly? Daily? Nope well maybe if you work for the fools printing the money.

    Medical? Is a doctor going to want get paid in the same decreasingly worthless money?

    Insurances? I'm going to bet that in a dollar collapse, lots more people will be dropping homeowners,renters,car,boat,motorcycle as that will seem like a luxury.

    lets say the company you work pays you 10.00 per hour. and they sell a service to the community at large. lets say they prepay for the service one year in advance. say lawn care. customer pays 400 dollars for the season or 10 hours for the year. great, your company has collected the money up front. WHAM hyperinflation hits. you are still getting paid 10 per hour. your company is on the hook for a years worth of service. Fuel prices double, profit margins plunge. Expanding the business is impossible. The actually price the business now needs to charge is 1000 per season per customer and the price the customer is willing to pay is still only 400 dollars at best. No new customers, business folds in less than a season. You and your coworkers no longer have a Job and no income.

    It will happen in all industries, manufacturing, automotive, services, transportation, retail. Everyone.

    Unless you sell a product/service that you can not be without, like water or electricity in the big cities.

    You had best have a skill to trade work for food / hard assets or hard assets to trade for food/services.

    It will be a whole new world and those of use that have prepared will be considered hoarders (evil) by the government and the sheeple. Because we will hopefully be self-sufficient / self-reliant groups that can't/won't be rounded up like lambs to the slaughter.

    It is going to suck bad. How bad could it get? Probably worse than you and I could ever imagine.

    Sorry, I guess i'm on a tear here. I just filled up my pickup truck to the tune of 134 dollars ($4.059/gal) and can't imagine wanting it to go to 6.00/gal anytime soon.

    Again, I don't think it's about money. We may be able to survive hyper inflation for a short period of time, the govt putting an extra zero or two on a bill. but i don't think that there has been an economy that has survived a currency collapse where serious violence/unrest/chaos didn't ensue.

    I am just waiting for QE17 to finally resolve the financial issues.
    Falcon15, tacmotusn and hank2222 like this.
  4. NCGunDude

    NCGunDude Monkey+

    It's a difficult thing to be totally self sufficient, off grid as it were, which is also why having a 1-2 yr supply of staples and necessities is a good idea. By necessities, I mean, food, water (or water source), fuel for cooking and heating, clothing, shelter, medicine, sanitation and personal defense.

    My wife and I started planning for an "extended camping trip" a couple of years ago. Built a primitive cabin with wood stove, shallow well, covered shelter, storage container, chicken coop, rabbit hutches and accumulated a year supply of food for a family of four. We're thankful we did, before food and fuel started going through the roof.

    In fact, we just got back from a day at the gun club, with our family and a friend's family. It was exhausting, but fun.

    My goal is to be able to survive the first few months of any declared emergency, and emerge at least alive when normalcy returns. I'm not prepared for a pre-industrial revolution way of life, but will adapt and survive as best as able, together with my household. Above all, put God first, and everything else falls into place. God bless and God help us.
    Cephus, hank2222 and VisuTrac like this.
  5. thebastidge

    thebastidge Monkey+

    That's if things are even available at any price. Somethings probably wouldn't be. Certain medicines are only made by a couple companies. What happens if they go out of business? The patent didn't expire- maybe the technicality just gets ignored. But spinning up to speed on producing that product takes time and money. Maybe nobody else has the extra to spare for such a spin-up. They stick with what they are already doing rather than re-tool. Some things become so expensive to produce, they can't be profitable because people turn to what is known as "inferior goods" in economic terms. Something that doesn't work as well, but is cheaper enough that people will use it and accept the decreased utility of it.

    Bottom line, most things are produced by the few organizations that are best at that item. If they go out of business, there might not be anyone else to step in to fill the gap for some time to come. Nature (and economics) abhors a vacuum, but that doesn't mean everything makes a smooth transition to fill the space. An empty ecosystem takes time to evolve to fill back up.
  6. NCGunDude

    NCGunDude Monkey+

    It won't take that long. Going into the 2008 recession, it was pretty much understood there was a likelihood of civil unrest in 2nd world countries. China is in as worse shape than we are, so is the European Union, then there's the middle east and muslim problem.

    It looks like the federal government is gearing up for a never ending war on terror, which is going to run up against the nagging reality of unsustainable deficit spending. Any cutback in deficit spending is going to ripple through the economy. The states are going to have to be bailed out, and there isn't any money. Medicaid and Medicare are among the costliest programs, but I don't think anyone is saying we should throw our poor and elderly out on the streets, it's more like throw the bums in federal government out.

    And therein lies the rub. We have an elected government, but without constraints on spending. A balanced budget amendment, and tax reform will go a long way, but these will be difficult to achieve. A reduction in deficit spending will not fix what's broken, only prolong the inevitable. Maintaining the status quo of welfare state is not an option, and requiring accountability in federal spending, and balancing the budget is a start toward a sustainable future. The only question is how bad does it have to get before we dismantle the current unsustainable system? I guess we're going to find out. Peace and God bless.
  7. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Hmmm i guess i could pay off the bank with the worthless notes... i mean they are FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES... and backed by the goverment... we could pay off the mortgages for the cost of a loaf of bread....:D
  8. thebastidge

    thebastidge Monkey+

    Yes, debt could easily be inflated away. If just living day to day doesn't take it all, leaving no surplus for mortgage payments. But what happens when all the value implicit in that debt disappears with it? I mean debt from one person is another person's profit.

    If all the major institutions go broke because the debt (read: investments) they are holding are suddenly worthless, then the whole economy goes down.
  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    At three pounds rice, three pounds beans, two pounds hard red wheat, supplimented by garden and orchard produce either canned, frozen, or dried, per week, I can support six people for about two years before I run out of the grains and have to make adjustments to the diet or barter for more dried grains. We can produce ten bunnies, ten chiickens, two dozen eggs, and thirty pounds of fish per week, as well as a bucket of night-crawlers and all the fish, oysters, crabs, etc that the Gulf shares with us. The most logical step is to increase our bean and corn production, as wheat doesn't do well around here. Corn will trade for rice. We have other grains stored. I am not overly concerned about surviving an economic collapse, as the additional time not spent at the 9 to 5 will be more than enough to suppliment the labor required to raise the additional food. I am reasonably sure that I can get my bike to run on alcahol and can distill enough fuel to get around. As for paying mortgages, forget it. Let someone try to displace me from my home and get a reasonable picture of hell on earth.
    VisuTrac likes this.
  10. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    My parents/grands told me stories about the 30's depression. Just a few things, bartering was the way people traded because there was no money flowing. My grandfather moved houses for chickens, hams, goods, and very little money. People ate fairly well because 85% of the country was agarian--today it is less than 10%. That means most people will have no way to feed themselves, provide heat, or anything else. What are they going to do? Your little seed plot will suddenly become priceless and your animals also. What will a gallon of milk be worth to a starving child/adult? Money will be next to useless-what are you going to buy with it? Point is: if you do not have it then you will just have to do without. Skills will suddenly become ultra valuable. Being able to repair things will be a commodity needed by everyone. Tools not dependent upon electricity will be needed. Do you have shoe making tools, sewing goodies, garden tools, the ability to protect your home and family? Can you diagnose and do minor med problems--have the meds needed?
    Sure wish I was solar prepared.
  11. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    skills i got and plenty of them....lol
  12. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    at my place i did alot of thinking of how to cut alot out on my place if something like the 30's happened again here and alot of thoughts went into how to heat and cool it along with how do i power it if something happens ..

    that why i went totaly off grid and underground to help with the heating & cooling of the place and useing solar to power the place

    i have been laying in mixture of long term & short term supplies like personal grooming and household cleaning items & bulk suppliesin 6,gallon sized buckets of mac & chesse & rice & corn & beans & potatoes & can meats along with few spices and other items to last a few years without touching the long term supplies i have in that area ..

    i been putting them into rubbermaid stowage totes with lids and labeling them up as i go and storeing them in the walkways of the stowage area to help with as need . ..

    also i been putting away Silver coins and bars in diff size along with so much paper money bills stashed away in the place for use if they are still any good ..

    as i said i more about a total money market melt down than anything else happening right now in the future ..then once that happens you might see some saber rattleing amoung the other countrys out there right now and someone makeing a move on someone else land or areas that they have .
  13. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  14. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    when you buy electronics, save the dessicant packages
    bake them in your oven @350 for 30 mins
    let them cool and seal them in a ziplock for later use
    then when you seal a bucket or whatever with food inside
    add the dessicant pack, it will help keep moisture down
  15. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    My initial thought is , that they are going to die. Either waiting for FEMA or some other federale' agency to come to their rescue OR Die trying to take it away from others that have it.

    Sad but true.

    Europe will be in the same boat. SE Asia, not so much. Most of their persons are just off (kids moved to the city for opportunity) the farm and could easily go back, move out of the big cities. Plus their government can force them to do what they want them to. (they've done it before).
  16. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'm with you beast. Michigan has been a great training ground for the past decade huh?
  17. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I suppose it all depends on what is meant.....IF that also involves the loss of income from social security, then I'd be in a pinch ( for awhile) until I got my shop set up. Right now, I exist on less than $500 a month. No payments for anything but my land ( $253 a month) and it will be paid off by October this year. ( I'm only paying for a 1 year mortgage!) No satellite tv, no internet costs, no cellular phone plans, just my gas, my food, and whatever else I need.
    Zero credit cards, loan or house payments, nor car payments.
    I'm pretty well set. I already have food for 2 for well over 1 year, lots of survival equipment...It was NOT easy, nor was it what you'd call FUN. I did what had to be done and I did without for awhile, to get here.
    I got serious and only bought what I needed .....It's a "mindset" that a few seem to posess. I think someone said it best: " Just what is you and your loved one's lives really worth?" I cut all my costs to the bone and used the money I saved to make myself truly "prepared".
    When I chose to go to "FULL preparedness", I purchased equipment and supplies for an original 6 people. Which has since dwindled to barely 2, or maybe 3. It was INSURANCE, and in the end it has so far paid off!
  18. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    England has been a net food importer since the 1800's.

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