How to communicate when cell towers are down?

Discussion in 'Survival Communications' started by RandolfG, Jun 30, 2017.


  1. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have lived out here in the Alaskan Bush since '91, and during the summers since '77.... There are NO Roads to get here... The only way IN or OUT, is by Boat or Bush Plane.... The nearest Road that connects to anywhere is 250 miles away, in Haines. Alaska... We have Cellular coverage here locally, but it takes External High Gain Antennas and BiDirectional Booster Amplifiers... Our Cellsite sits at 3500' and is 16 miles away, all over water... My usual RSL is in the -88db range, with a 15db Antenna. Anywhere near a City, Cell coverage is usually available, and also anywhere near an Alaska Highway... Some Villages will have Cell coverage, depending on if there is enough traffic to support the Investment... I have been a Ham Radio Operator for 6 decades, and have Tx/Rx coverage from DC to10 Ghz... My wife is also a Ham Radio Operator, and we take care of ALL of our own Comm issues, ourselves... I have extensive experience in Marine, Aircraft, and Bush Communications, as well as Regulator Experience with the .GOV....
     
  2. RandolfG

    RandolfG Monkey

    WOW! It looks a personal/community-owned mobile communication network built with Sonnet/Beartooth/goTenna Mesh would make a lot of differences!
     
    DuxDawg likes this.
  3. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If it's capabilities are not that much better than a $50. family radio, why invest ?
    If it hasn't the capabilities of 2 meter ham hand held radios , it's a novelty .IMO
    One thing we discovered with 800 megs sheriffs radios was that in the mountains it was almost useless , trees and hills were the greater obstacle not to mention being repeater dependent otherwise .I don't expect 900 megs to be any better.
    The 150 megs radios were far more reliable on a search, being able to bounce a signal if necessary .
    If communications are important to you ,have plenty of alternatives that you can turn to ,both for listening and for communication to others out side your group.
    Having something exclusive has its advantages like a business band ,especially if you have a recon team . but several frequencies you can work in can be an advantage if you develop good relations with another group .
    Ham radio would be more beneficial in education both mechanically and socially .
     
    DuxDawg and Witch Doctor 01 like this.
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    And yet, it also has its attraction with being able to securely transmit data without need of a license and utilizes smartphones, which is something pretty much everybody already has. Granted, I agree HAM radio is what it is, nevertheless.
     
    Homer Simpson likes this.
  5. RandolfG

    RandolfG Monkey

    The whole point of mesh networking isn't about the range, it is more about the network. With the network, you can dramatically increase the effective range. Sonnet's peer-to-peer range is avg 5 km, which isn't long at all. But via relaying, your signal can go as far as 90 km.
    As the matter of fact, you can consider Sonnet as a signal tower you can carry, which covers a huge round area around it.
     
    DuxDawg likes this.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The issue here, as I see it, is about SECURE Comms..... This is my primary reason for interest in such devices... It is why I brought the SECURE Phones to the attention of our Monkeys, and looked at the GoTenna, and BearTooth, products... as extentions to the SECURE Comms for local AoO operations... It is true that the ISM Band leaves something to be desired, as an RF Link.... That said you do not get to use Spread Spectrum on ANY of the other License Free Bands with Frequecies below 1Ghz, in the USA... MURS, FRS, and CB have their uses, but NO Security of Comms... The New Digital Radios available, can provide SECURE Comms, in many different Frequenciy Bands, but also require Licenses... and are considerably MORE Expensive... So far, this prospective Product, has the most capability, of all the License Free SECURE Comm Systems... The thru-put is fair, but drops by 50% every Hop it makes, thru a MESH Network... So MESH does increase Range, at the expense of Bandwidth... This isn't WiFi, but it does use industry Standaed Protocols, and no proprietary encoding schemes... I have covered this before but it bears REPEATING... Spread Spectrum modulation brings the added bonus, in that it is not easily decoded, without a Truck full of Hardware, and it also is very hard to Direction Find, especially when used in SHORT Burst Mode... This makes for VERY SECURE Comms... even if for local Comms, only...
     
    DuxDawg and Witch Doctor 01 like this.
  7. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    Trisquare radios.

    TriSquare TSX300-2VP Two Way Radio Value Pack
    Discontinued but still out there on Ebay, they use eXRS on 915 Mhz band and employ spread spectrum frequency hopping.
    eXtreme Radio Service - Wikipedia

    I was fortunate enough to have bought a few of these way back and these are what we use around the AO. They also do text messages for really short bursts.

    No gps, no pictures, but cheap and reliable with a realistic 2 mile coverage and 4-5 mile coverage with some height on one end.
     
  8. RandolfG

    RandolfG Monkey

    Thank you for reminding me :)
    Yep devices like Sonnet including goTenna BearTooth send digital signal meaning the signal can be encrypted like all digital information.
     
  9. RandolfG

    RandolfG Monkey

    Hi Guys,

    Just to post some updates regarding our progresses:
    I. We had been successfully funded after the first 24 hours of the campaign and now we are 961% funded. So yes Sonnet will come true and be delivered;
    II. a lot more features have been added recently:
    1. Sonnet will be extensible with the USB port which allow many use cases that we have not mentioned on the campaign to stem from the same Sonnet hardware: webcam, USB drive, GPS dongle, 3G/4G dongle, audio dongle;
    2. Sonnet will have a SMA connector enabling external antenna which further stretches the peer-to-peer range;
    3. Sonnet will support solar panel which greatly enhance the battery life;
    4. We are redesigning our external case with professional designer which aims to make carrying Sonnet a cool experience and to make the case even more robust;
    Sonnet: World's Most Advanced Off-Grid Mobile Mesh Network

    Our campaign will end in 5 days.
     
    DuxDawg likes this.
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    That is ALL very good News.... and also very innovative Improvements to the Design... I really like the SMA Connector redesign, as this will allow Ham Operators, to add Power Amps, up to 10Watts, to the devices, and extend the Operational Range, considerable...
     
    DuxDawg likes this.
  11. Southbound

    Southbound Monkey++

    After looking at it, I agree with an earlier post. I sounds no better than my 50$ family radio that has NOAA weather stations. I think I will stick with my ham radios.
     
  12. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Except ALL those FRS/GMRS Devices are Scannable, and DF-able... Where a Spread Spectrum Devices are NOT.... for Security in Comms, these have that covered, well.... not to mention Encryption is possible with Digital Comms...
     
  13. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Just for fun I wonder if you could repurpose this old satellite dishes to create better range and a better focused beam .
    We did something years ago with 2 meter ,and it worked well but then again it's a focused beam,, precise aiming is imperative.
     
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Theoretically you could repurpose the larger dishes. Bear in mind that the current types of dishes are really a bit small for lower frequencies as in say 6M and longer. The key part of the dish is the emitting element, and if it is bigger than the dish -
    Might be those older 14 footers would be more easily jiggered with.
     
    DuxDawg likes this.
  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The 18" Tv Dishes are designed for 14 Ghz and work well above that, but less well at 5 Ghz and lower... No matter what the uninformed tell you.... For WiFi the Pringles Can Antennas work well as a Feed Horn, but if you want better Gain than that, you need at least a 1.2 Meter Dish, and the Pringles Can at the FocalPoint... There are TONs of uTubes, for building this stuff, but very FEW, actually document just how WELL they work with REAL Gain Figures, because it takes Good Instrumentation to get those numbers, and 99% of the UTube Yahoos, don't have access to that kind of Stuff... The Rule of Thumb for Parabolic Dish Antennas is the Dish Diameter needs to be 10 - 20 Times the Wavelength... So for 2 Meters, you will need at least a 20 Meter Dish, and those aren't cheap, or easy to come by....
     
    DuxDawg likes this.
  16. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    I think I'll stick with my 13 el beam ;)
     
  17. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    That is why the one of the first EME Transmissions, on 2 Meters, was done with the Aericibo Dish, in the PR... it has a Moveable FeedHorn and can change the FocalPoint of the Dish....
     
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