How Would You Preserve a Firearm....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gator 45/70, Jul 30, 2011.

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  1. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Suppose you pick up a 10' joint of Sch.40 P.V.C.pipe 6''dia. with end caps...
    Now how would you pickle a few rifles' and ammo for long term storage inside of the p.v.c. pipe..Say under 6''of dirt...This is all hypothetical...
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Well, looking at some of the milsurp that has been in storage for decades i'd say cosmoline.

    disassemble weapon cause it can't be fired until it's cleaned anyway.

    warm the cosmoline until it is more like a thick syrup than a waxy mass
    swab the bore, pour into receiver, dunk trigger components if you disassemble that far and dunk the bolt. If mags are detachable dunk it too.

    I probably wouldn't coat wood if it has it (personal choice) but i'd give it a really good wax job with warm bees wax on exterior and bedding area. coat it.

    there are ziplock bags out there for long guns. In one bag i'd put the stock. I'd bag the barrel/receiver in one bag. In a handgun ziplock, it put the magazines (where applicable). In another bag the trigger components.

    for Ammo I'd probably vacuum seal a few stripper clips worth of ammo together or what ever quantity one tupperware container can hold. store X tupperware containers will fit into pipe.

    Include reassembly instructions in ziplock bag with pictures if possible.
    Include tools required to reassemble, cleaning rod,tooth brushes, bore brushes, patches, rags, and a glass jar of mineral spirits or other solvent to help remove the cosmoline. And put the solvent into another tupperware container to better protect.

    Remember, you may not be the one digging this up. It may be your great grandkids after guns and ammo have been banned. What ever you can put in there to help them (like what the sight picture should look like when aiming)

    still got room in the pipe, add replacement parts (bolt, firing pin,springs,screws, magazine repair springs/floor plates/follower, sling, ...etc) and more ammo or another gun.

    But this is all hypothetical so what do i know. But that's what I'd like to dig up if need be.
    dragonfly and Gator 45/70 like this.
  3. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Ziplock bags for that i've not heard of...+1...
  4. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    I think that nailed it.

    But I'd like to add an opinion . . .

    If practical I'd sure bury it deeper than six inches. [winkthumb]
  5. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    There may be a legend about a number of tubes buried back in the woods of Michigan's Upper Peninsula at an old timers deer campsite.

    Story goes some forward thinking individuals made some tubes and put in preserved guns and ammo, wrapped the tubes in waxed canvas, buried them deep, and then built a privy on top.

    But it's just a legend.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  6. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Whatever choice you decide to go with, for a rifle I would make damn certain it is stored waterproofed, no matter the type of lubricant used on it. ---> BAG-097 - Aloksak 12x48" Weapons Bag Package of Two Element Proof Storage Bag is Air Tight

    The LokSak is a fine product, and they are rugged enough to withstand long term storage. If you use these bags in conjunction with a PVC storage solution, you will be in fine shape. Depending on your geographic location, results may vary -a dry desert cashe will produce different results than a northerly cashe. In moderate zones, the temperature will remain relatively stable underground, but no matter where you store your goods, always keep the dangers of moisture in mind. I would vacuum seal any ammo, too.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Heavy oil or light grease on everything, insert in pipe segment, bagged or not. Warm the pipe to near too hot to touch (drives off moisture) Throw in some O2 absorbers, glue on the cap. Bury vertically (reduces magnetic signature for treasure finders) and below the frost line. Yeah, I know, the oil will settle in vertical storage, but it will also tend to vaporize. The oil or grease will settle anyway. Cosmoline is used where the storage conditions cannot be guaranteed, isn't necessary for this case. YMMV.

    Gotta admit I like the idea of vacuum sealing if you can find a sealer that will handle the parts. Bear in mind that if you use an oil or grease, it might outgas and interfere with the drawing the vacuum.
  9. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Yeah i like the vacuum sealer idea for the ammo....
    This is all hypothetical...just say'n...
  10. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Where to bury. Hmm, that a toughy

    Let's see, Where should one bury a cache.

    Under a newly built patio?
    How about under a landscaping timber?
    along the foundation of a friends turn of the century barn?
    The inside perimeter of an old stone wall?

    How about making the cache part of a larger building project like a pvc pipe garden fence?

    And would anyone actually bury something in a well casing being uses as a top bar on a swing set?

    How about a fake waste drain inside of your house?

    Can you bury a cache in your attic insulation?

    How about below a raised garden bed?

    In your driveway?

    Under the rubber mat in the horses' stall?

    surely not in the pig pen!

    and no way would anyone put a septic tank not connected to a household in their yard for the sole purpose of hiding stuff.
    I've never heard of someone putting in a cistern with man access as a cache.
    Same goes for 5 foot diameter concrete rebar reinforced sewer pipes laid vertically, sealed and capped buried in the horse pasture?

    Nah, no one would do any of the above.[peep]

    Where not to bury: [nono]
    Have Miss Digg come out and mark the under ground utilities. Tell them you are thinking about putting in a fence and want to make sure you don't hit water/power/gas/telco That is were not to bury a cache for sure.

    Not under an easement or utility right of way lest they dig up some hidden treasure.

    Caching on property you don't own is problematic as you may not have access to it, there may be construction on the property that could uncover you cache.

    Caching on federal/state land is illegal in most cases and some caches have been found by unsuspecting hikers especially when buried under a large tree and during a wind storm the tree toppled taking contents of root ball to the surface. But usually there is a lot more space, and fewer eyes out there. but it's your call.

    Along a river/stream bank due to sporadic flooding, your cache could be washed out.
  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    We obviously disagree. A sealed PVC pipe is not a guarantee at all. Even the smallest fracture will cause it to lose what little seal it once had. But, I don't care, do what makes you smile!!! (y)
  12. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Vacuum seal seed's and throw it into the mix..Pro's/con's..??
  13. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I'd bury the items ( sealed) deep under an area that will be used to burn trash, old wood etc.. Cans, lids, tabs, nails etc. throw a false reading to metal detectors. A friend of mine buried his in a salvage yard, as his buddy owns it and they placed a stack of junked cars righr next to it. Anything that can mislead is what I'd do. Old water heaters, (still in position)can be a great place, plugging the connected pipes, putting water inside the pipes and sealing them. Some say it's best to plumb it with pvc pipe, so they won't rust out.....I like the area under an "outhouse" or thereabouts too!
  14. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I like the old trash pile idea...My metal detector does not have a read out Stating..''There's a weapon down there''...It just reads..''Trash''..ccc...
    dragonfly likes this.
  15. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    i was thinking inside a large iron pipe, the kind they use to keep cars from hitting buildings and poles
    drop your sealed weapon down inside, fill the remainder with sand and cap with crete
    wont nobody ever look there
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Humidity is your biggest problem. Others have already mentioned cosmoline. Heavy grease is a good alternative.

    Oil has a way of evaporating/disappearing over time. The magical oil removing fairies come along and you end up with a rusted heap despite the fact that the firearm was well-oiled prior to storage.

    I'd say that O2 absorbers are a good idea.

    Another thing to consider is the type of firearm. Is your bore chrome lined? What sort of ammo has been shot through? What sort of finish? Generally speaking, parkerized firearms with a good oil/grease coating tend to rust less than a blued finish. A coated firearm with a modern coating is even better (chrome moly, cerakote, etc.). Chrome lined bores with grease aren't rusting anytime soon. The same applies to gas parts and chrome lining. I say that because some low end ARs don't have a chrome lined BCG. Some low end AKs don't have chromed pistons. This is critical IMHO. Not just for storage, but for reliability under high volume fire and lack of cleaning. If you have been shooting corrosive mil-surp through this weapon, you want to be especially careful about cleaning and over-lubing prior to storage. Any place with corrosive salts that the oil may dry up on will rust.

    I have seen multiple firearms destroyed by humidity/weather. All looked like hell outside, but had clean bright bores. The insides were in good working order too. The worst example was a Sears Roebuck Model 92 that my Sis in law left in a truck toolbox for more than a year. Great functional, accurate rifle. Looked like sh*t. The internals kept oil better than the outside and thus the results. I have a Winchester Model 37A in similar condition right now (anyone know a good bluer in TN?).

    Another thought- aluminum is less prone to corrosion and at a slower rate than steel. Storing a .22? Choose one with a coated barrel (like the new 10/22s) and an aluminum receiver. Heavy grease in the bore and on the bolt.... it should last forever.

    I would be weary of plastics. The least bit of moisture that breaks into that bag, and you might as well have stored it in the bottom of a lake. Its far better IMHO to leave it loose packed (but greased) in the tube than to put it in plastic. If the tube does rupture, the plastic bag will follow soon after with the humidity and moisture. The only difference is you have that dam* bag inside trapping moisture right against the metal. Bad combination.

    Bury deep. The deeper, the less fluctuation in moisture and temperature. Generally, the cooler the contents will stay as well (better for ammo).
  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Unadulterated garbage, that's all the statement you made is. I am beginning to wonder why you and Ghrit are always teaming-up. Listen, claiming that a very high quality plastic LokSak will suddenly rupture as soon as a PVC pipe leaks is insane, we aren't retards. Now, you will probably claim to have years of experience in these things, you know what? Nobody cares. Nobody will "like" your post because you are simply STATING THE OBVIOUS and then throwing in your disagreement, which by the way is nothing more than an assertion. But, YOUR OPINION is well received, HighspeedAl2. Now, turn everything I said against me using my own text like I have seen many trolls do on other forums.

    You know what -here's a pact I will make with you. If I post in a thread before you do, then you don't even post in it unless you completely ignore what I type. I will do the same for you, too. We OBVIOUSLY don't get along, and Ghrit will only support you for some reason, probably because he likes "safe", and he is scared the police will come and shut the forum down. Well, whatever. And I am purposefully posting this in the open forum because THIS IS THE REASON I LEFT TO BEGIN WITH.

    The fantastic duo. You both make me sick. I am going on another vacation away from here. Maybe 2 weeks this time. When I get back, if you two can't leave me alone, I am gone for good.
  18. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Gentlemen..Please...Many are interested in preservation of many items...
    Including both of you gentlemen staying on board.Gator 45/70
    dragonfly likes this.
  19. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I have no idea why you went off because I stated my opinion. I apologize for the fact that any disagreement or counter argument to your opinion is "unadulterated garbage". I feel like I am apologizing for my mere presence, which is quite ridiculous. All opinions should be appreciated and encouraged.

    To answer about the only coherent thing in your post:
    I don't claim to have years of experience in anything. Nor, did I say anything about a LokSak. I do know for a fact, however, that when properly sealed, PVC is not likely to leak. Hence the reason why its the standard for plumbing in America now. Nothing is fool proof. Aside from that, LokSak has a bit of a disclaimer:
    Source: Disclaimers

    Again, I apologize for offending you by having an opinion.
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I'm speechless. A very difficult achievement, I assure you.
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