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Hurricane Sandy: Federal Assistance .. should we bail people out too?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by UGRev, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    It's tough to say it to people, but I think all of you here understand this more than most. I don't think the Feds should be bailing out people even for natural disasters. I firmly believe this to be state and local "community" gov't jurisdiction. Why should another state's people pay for the recovery of another state after a disaster? I suppose if they voted on it and said "yes, we'll help you" that's one thing.. but why force them? or rather, why steal from them without even giving them the option to "yea/nay".

    I say this because I saw the interview with the guy on Fox news and I just kept shaking my head. He doesn't get it either. He doesn't deserve the Federal money either.

    I refer you this for my reasoning:
    Not Yours to Give, by Davy Crockett
  2. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    If there is 1 good use for your "tax dollars" it's helping your fellow countrymen after a natural disaster.
    Why should 1 state be "forced" to help? Uh...cuz you're a COUNTRY maybe?
    Do you really hate your neighbor states that much?
    Those are PEOPLE who are suffering....not some faceless gov agency.
    "Let them freeze on the street and drink muddy water..."
    Seem as far cry from “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”.
    Where is your empathy man? Without it....you should apply for a government job.

  3. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The one thing to be said for local help, it'll be a WHOLE lot faster than federal. Sandy's vics are still waiting on Congress, lo these many months later, while locals and others have gone nearly as far as they can without jeopardizing their own ability to respond if something happens in their hometown. Even up here on the hill, there's been a lot of contributions of money, materials, and manpower gone to the shore to help out without any kind of compensation. We had lots of outside help back in the flooding last year, and still recovering from that as well.

    I'm not willing to say that it's a totally federal responsibility, but at least part of it should be, and promptly. FEMA behaves like molasses in February.
  5. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    How about you ask me for my help instead of forcing to me to do something. It's like some homeless fuck putting a gun to my head and demanding I give him my money. If he just asked me, I would I have given him some cash. But now, since he jammed a gun in my face, he can go fuck off. Empathy? sure, I have that.. how about A LITTLE FUCKING COMMON COURTESY! I have no problem giving assistance, but you best ask me for it and not just expect it. Or would at least offer it on my own. Did you even read the history in the link?

    The money is not just my money, it's EVERYONE's money. It is NOT the responsibility of the Federal gov't to make these decisions for me. Sorry..

    Btw.. your emotional response is exactly what I expect from a non-American and it fits quite well with my other post. Non-Americans will never understand "being American".
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I would only ask ONE Question..... Why should I be asked to pay for rebuilding someones HOME, that was built in a 100 Year Flood Plain, when it gets washed away? Just WHEN did it become the Governments business, to Bail Out, the Stupid? Oh, I guess that is TWO Questions....
    STANGF150 and mysterymet like this.
  7. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey++

    I live in an area of flood plains and have seen 2 or 3 hundred year floods a 500 year flood and a 1000 year flood. The second or third time people got fed money they were told to apply for a grant to raise their houses or they would not get fed money again. They were given $28,000 by the fed each time, plus any grants. Why were they given the money because they did not have flood ins. If you had flood insurance you did not get any money. So the prepared got nothing and the slacker was rewarded. There is something very wrong here and it is a great argument to stop FEMA and government handouts now.

    And as an aside we ran the recovery thru our volunteer fire department with volunteer help and out of 56 houses that were uninhabitable only a couple were not occupied a year later.
    oldawg, UGRev and CATO like this.
  8. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    Very typical of how the govt. thinks: the people handing out the money--not their money, just money that they have a pool of--"have to do something to help these homeless people." If you axed them why don't you give it to everyone, they would say "The others don't need it, they were insured. Let their insurance handle it."

    How many times does your insurance put you back square? Never.

    The way the .gov is set up, they can't help but waste money. You have $X.00 in an account, which has to be spent by the end of the fiscal year.
    UGRev likes this.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    yeah, you can't fix stupid. It always amazed me that houses and apartments in Californication, are required to be built to hurricane specs, with roof ties, and wind loaded doors to prevent blow-ins.......yet it is perfectly legal to live on the beach in a trailer. I have seen whole trailer parks of them floating out to see, when the heavy rains start, as they love to park them in gullies. As for helping your fellow man, my generator went with a friend to his parent's place near the coast, until their power came back on, and they no longer needed it. It was a voluntary act, not imposed by mandate. He needed help, I choose to give it.
    Mountainman and UGRev like this.
  10. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    You and I are gonna end up being good friends I think...hehe

    Anyyyyway.... Common courtesy? This is not an American value....well maybe in a few places in the south....
    If you really wanted common courtesy you'd move to Canada...we're world famous for being polite.
    Frankly...I'm prolly one of the most American-like Canadians you'll ever meet and I assure you that even I don't ever wanna be an American. Ya'lls dollar is screwed...that 1,000,000 CDN CP rail donated to Sandy victims.....more like 1,014,610.39 US.

  11. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I used to live in Plattsburgh. My wife's grandparents are from Quebec. I have nothing but friendly feelings towards you poutine heads (that's a joke btw). Montreal was one of the cleanest cities I've ever been to. When I parked in the wrong spot, they even towed me up the street at no charge to a spot that was proper. Bro, I totally loved the hospitality and common sense and near lack of "dickness" when I visited. I say near because the waitress expected a tip every time I ordered something. I found that less than admirable and when I asked about it, I was given a talking to. At that time, the exchange was ~$.60-65 /1CDN and I was paying in $ to be nice (she was hot, ok? :D) . So if you maples wanted to send cash to Sandy victim's that's your call. As I don't live in Canada, I have no say in what you do..nor do I much care how you handle your finances. But you have to understand one thing about me at least as I can't speak for every American here, but where I grew up and how I was raised, no one ever decided how to use your money for you and if someone needed help you would help or they would ask if you didn't know they needed it. I just don't like being told that I have no choice in the matter. ESPECIALLY since they keep trying to stick pork in shit like this to piggy back a good intention. Oh man, that pisses me off.

    So, I assert that our Federal gov't has no power to make this decision for the rest of the country and that help should be left up to the community. If the people's money is to asked for, then the people must vote unanimously to allow it.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    After reading how bad our dollar is hosed; I expected more than 14,610.39 per million. ;)

    Plus, Canada's gun laws are stifling. Hmmm, I'd be in the Prohibited class.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  13. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Like UGRev said, in times gone by that 1m would have only been $600k US....you've lost 40% of your value in a decade or so.
    To comment on my gun laws...I agree. They are somewhat stifling but probably not as bad as you might think.
    Keep in mind that up here a gun is really just for hunting or sport shooting....it's not intended for us to protect ourselves from tyranny of gov....and I assure you that our gov is nearly if not equally as bad as yours with a few exceptions. Generally speaking - the further west you go the easier it is to be armed. You can still get a handgun or even an AR but yes there is a "process" to go through.
    I don't overly agree with it...but I do understand how and why it was been put in place.
    Granted...I'm a minority....the vast majority of Canadians are in favor of gun control and truely don't understand the dangers of what would/will happen when/if Americans are disarmed.

    UGRev likes this.
  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Spoken like an alien. and a biased one, at that. Common courtesy, IS a PRIME American value, It a cornerstone of behavior from the cradle to the grave, but we are tired of supporting the rest of the world, and being hated for it. Mayberry USA, is what we were once, but how many times have we helped other countries, only to have them turn on us? How many people have FLOODED our country, without the right to be here? How many illegal aliens, are breaking our laws, taking our jobs, sending money home without paying taxes, taking over our cities like in Florida? Does the phrase "Cambodian Boat People" ring any bells? Our legal immigration system is working overtime, while more pour over the borders everyday. Our borders are not to keep people in!
    If we stopped supporting every blasted place that needs or wants a handout, and spent OUR money on OUR kids, OUR resources, and OUR people, we could be the post polite people on Earth. Fences make good neighbors. But I'm tired of helping people and getting slapped for doing so.
    Common Courtesy? I was in Montreal Canada, while they were in the process of REMOVING all the English from all public signs, street signs, public building.....It was like being deaf! You want a thankyou for helping after Sandy? No problem, Thank you. Is that enough? Or do you want the parade to go with it? You are pretty particular about the amount, do you need a bigger thank you? maybe a plaque?
    I'm tired of hearing how rude Americans are. When you are taken for a mark, it tends to irritate you.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  15. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Bro...I worked for Verizon for 2 years doing tech support for new yorkers....they were not polite....in fact when I was too polite they were suspicious - sometimes even aggressive. "Why are you being so damn nice? Are you trying to sell me something? FIX IT NAO!"
    Looking at how poorly black folks are treated in detroit is disgusting.
    I "get" your disdain for immigrants...I really do...but I think some of ya'll take it way too far.

    Regarding Sandy...you're welcome but no thank you was necessary. It's neighborly and frankly it was the right thing to do.
    I really don't think people in Jersey are sitting there rubbing their hands together in glee thinking aboot how much money they are gonna get and snickering at the rest of the country being suckers for providing it. They prolly just want some place warm to sleep, something decent to eat and a return to some sense of normalicy.

    Regarding Quebec....ugh...it's a real sore point for me. You can have the whole province for a herd of texan cattle and a case of bud.
    I'm not a big fan of separatists and I certainly wouldnt use Montreal as an example of the majority of Canadian culture.
  16. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    "I "get" your disdain for immigrants.." You do not, Sir. Immigrants are the backbone of this country. They play by the rules, they become Citizens, they learn the language, they work hard, and improve this country. i have Iranian, German, French, and Japanese, and Mexican IMMIGRANTS in the family now. The word you were looking for is "Parasites". As for New York it is a cultural thing, like the French despise Parisians. "Looking at how poorly black folks are treated in detroit is disgusting." Really? Treated by whom? If they are unhappy there, they can always move, or change things.
    ". You can have the whole province for a herd of texan cattle and a case of bud." You see, this is what I'm talking about....What on God's great earth, makes you think Quebec is worth that much? i told you We don't LIKE getting gouged!;)
    UGRev and Mindgrinder like this.
  17. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    I thought aboot your plaque of thank you offer....but it would probably have to be made in china or mexico seeing as how there's no industry left state-side. It wouldn't be polite to ask you to spend when your country is so poor.
    Thanks for the offer though...it was nice.

    *sigh* couldnt even give away quebec....s'pose i need to keep'em anyway...they occasional breed good goalies and there's diamonds up north and hydro in the river...

    kellory likes this.
  18. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    With Canada's natural resources (oil, natural gas, food, lumber, minerals etc), your money ought to be worth at least 4 times ours. Look at the economy in Texas and they only have a few of Canada's multitude of resources. In West Virginia, due to natural gas, single wides are renting for $600 a week which is scary when you think of it. ;)

    There are competitive sports where people compete for fun and sometimes loser buys lunch. :D Plus, ARs are excellent hunting rifles, varmint/predator rifles and also excellent target rifles also. With the AR's swappable upper with one lower, a person can compete at all of them.

    Where did the protect us from the tyranny of government come from?

    Plus some people collect them for the same reasons people collect anything from coins to beanie babies. Others own them because they get what force multiplier means; although they may or may not get the how to of applying a force multiplier. To some, the Katrina Effect was quite a convincer.

    In the beginning Regulars were the Continental Army and the militia was a bunch of people who showed up, weren't trained, fed or even paid; they brought their own equipment with their money. They paid with their blood until the Continentals got their stuff together.

    We have a process also, if someone passes a NICS check, it goes home with it. Can you buy an AOW, Class III or a weapon mounted NVS in Canada?

    The why eludes me, you'll have to explain? Did Canada experience a bold faced liar who missed Adam used pistols and there wasn't an AR insight? It is just another load of socialist bs.

    I've heard the sheep are sure they don't need sheep dogs also... ;)

    Immigrants are one thing and illegal aliens quite another.
    CATO and Mindgrinder like this.
  19. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    1. Do you think my currency is backed by oil, nat gas, lumber or gold? Same as you - we took the silver outta our coin a long time ago.

    2. The Greatest Thomas Jefferson quotes

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Jefferson (damn mason)

    3. Nothing full auto or vehicle mounted...the rules aboot handguns are pretty rough but it IS still possible to own one legally if you jump through the hoops. Psure our AR's have to use small mags though.

    4. Sorry - I don't get what u mean.

    5, I agree. One has papers from the government, the other does not. I get it. Do you?

    My dog doesnt like sheep and she really has a beef with the neighbors goats. I think it's cuz she's a Christian and watched too many videos aboot secret societies and devil worshiping politicians. Personally...I wish I had a goat....would save me a lot of trouble clearing blackberry bushes.
  20. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    "5, I agree. One has papers from the government, the other does not. I get it. Do you?" No, Grinder, you don't.
    One has earned the right, the other has stolen it.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
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