First Amendment I am asking for your help - Common Core

Discussion in 'Bill of Rights' started by tacmotusn, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. Amish Heart

    Amish Heart Monkey

    Communist Core
    tacmotusn likes this.
  2. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Sad thing is even though most are against it, common core will still be implemented. Majority does not rule, the feds do.
  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    I am not so sure I can agree. As I understand it several States have rejected common core by State Legislation. Case in point, and surprising to me, as they have disappointed me time and time again with the way that the State majority vote swung. .... Ohio voted to reject Common Core. I was proud for them. According to Constitutional Law, the Federal government has no business dictating to States on matters of Education. All their bumbling interference started due to Civil Rights and needed changes on equal terms with whites and non whites. It should have stopped there for the most part, but once the camel gets it's nose under the side of the tent, it is damn hard to keep it out. Feds prostitute the States by offering them money to do their bidding.
  4. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    The concept of a common core does make sense from an educational point of view... However the devil is in the details... over testing, use of questionable textbooks, poor planning, limited teacher training... etc... and of course the Micro Soft connection with it's lobby pushing it... I keep expecting a Blue textbook of death.. and having to reboot the entire educational system...
    Yard Dart and tulianr like this.
  5. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Common Core is just another indoctrination technique, plain and simple.
    First thing that needs to happen with our education system.....get the feds out of state amongst everything else!!
    Those would be the best steps/hope for our future generations ever getting a good education.
    Dawg23, Amish Heart and tacmotusn like this.
  6. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Voted. Strongly against it. I work hard to explain relationships between numbers to my child as we're working on math; but the approach that common core is taking is ridiculous. They are going to convince many children that they just don't understand math at a very early age, and turn them off completely. We need children excited by math, training for careers in engineering, medicine, and science; not more Taco Bell employees that were turned off at an early age, and were just happy to scrape by in school until they could drop out. Thanks for the opportunity tacmotusn to speak in your community. Hopefully we will all have a chance to speak in our own communities about this.
    oldawg, JABECmfg, Yard Dart and 3 others like this.
  7. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    60-3 against
  8. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    The concept of common core is that all students should have the same set of skills when they graduate... There is nothing wrong with that... I'm not sure how its communist... I don't think we need to dumb down every thing to make common core work... Teachers should be accountable as should the parents... a teacher has less that 8 hours a day with a student at best... a parent has the rest of the time ... holding teachers 100% responsible is like having responsibility with no authority... I'm fortunate.. I work at the college level.. and don't have this BS to worry about...
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  9. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    I voted , But left No Comment .. Reading this thread on they way CC works is just DUMB.
    I do most math in my head & add fractions somewhat (Less now that building has been completed) This was drilled into young canadian military schools (1960 era) with Math times table cards plus many more memory aids (WITHOUT REQUIRING BATTERY'S) .

    Too much PC Crap , if you can't pass a test , YOU FAIL & take another year to master it & then have the basic basis to move forward . If not you'll always be guessing .
    Here is Americas schooling in 2016: ;)

    need to find the joke & edit it in here. Going around in Europe now
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  10. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    I spoke to an unusual high school history teacher in depth a few days back. We do not need a rewrite of history. Facts are facts. If history is not politically correct by todays standards, why the hell rewrite history with a political bias to fit what pleases the current Executive branch of government. I suspect this history teacher I was talking to will have a short career at his current position since he teaches Common core as required and assigns extra study to his promising students to teach them to think for themselves and not necessarily believe everything the government would like you to believe, or the alphabet news either. COMMON CORE IS FEDERAL DRIVEN AND DIRECTED IN VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS.
    Dawg23 likes this.
  11. Harbin

    Harbin Monkey+

    Absolute garbage. My mother was a teacher, 2 of my wife's friends are elementary school teachers and they all think it's a disaster. My mother didn't even think I was serious when I asked her about it (been retired for a while). Wife's friends both say it's a train wreck- one quit public and now works for a charter school (they don't follow common core). My children will not learn it. My wife and I have talked, the schools here are extremely high end but if they start teaching it we will leave for either private or opt for home schooling.
    tacmotusn and Mountainman like this.
  12. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Actually common core is being pushed by Bill and Melinda Gates and their money.... which means politicians...... I don't advocate rewriting history.... but it shouldn't be unthinkable for all students graduating high school to be able to do the same work...
  13. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I don't disagree with the common sense of having all college entrants possessing of a minimum common level of education in basic subjects; but I thought that was what standardized testing was all about. I'm not sure why we need a totally new approach to education. I also don't like the idea of educational methodology and content being entirely ripped out of the hands of the parents and local communities. Just as I don't want a senator from California dictating the gun laws of our state, I don't want some federal representative dictating every brush stroke that occurs in our state's schools. I don't know where the balance is, but we haven't found it.

    As to the history being presented in our schools, particularly US history, I think it could do with an intelligent rewrite. I, for one, have been astonished over the years, as I've continued my education, at what was not in my high school history books. I'm not talking about making our history books "politically correct," but many of the texts that I have seen could certainly be more "properly balanced." I've been really happy with a series of US History texts by Joy Hakim, that we are using with my son. We have found a refreshing degree of honesty and open mindedness in the content of those books. We constantly raise our eyebrows and say, "I can't believe they just said that in a history book!" Those books tell the good, the bad, and the ugly.
    tacmotusn, Mountainman and kellory like this.
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Correct. The question is, why must the standards be set so low? And, in the case of the arithmetic examples above, must it be overly complex?
    tulianr likes this.
  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    All humans are exactly the same. Gender doesn't matter in anything. Differences are problematic and should be corrected. We should teach only what we believe to be good and correct. History should be forgotten as soon as possible because man might have made some mistakes in the past. What's past is past, why worry about it. .... tic(tongue in cheek)
    All students graduating high school will never be able to do the same work. Ever!
    Now for how I really feel. ... All people are not created equal. Some are smarter than others, and always will be. If little Jimmy has a tested IQ of 88 at age 16, he probably isn't going to be a Yale Graduate no matter what his parents want for him. Michael who has an IQ of 146 may have a chance at Yale as well as many other things, but not if his intelligence is not recognized and nurtured and guided early in life. Life isn't always fair. People who strive to learn and excel may succeed, or not. Little Jimmy is a rich crooked politician's son. He has little ethical upbringing. He wants for very little that he is aware of. What he will make of his life is anyone's guess. I suspect he will not live up to his parents expectations and will emotionally destroy more than a few people who cross his path in life. Michael's life ended already. Michael was never aware of who his father was. His Mother died when he was 7. Michael died at age 16. He was an up and coming Somali Pirate killed by US Navy forces protecting a cargo ship he was attacking.
    Utopia in all things is a fantasy of the mind. It is not attainable and never will be. School should be able to identify a child with an IQ of 88 as well as one of 146 and first teach them the basics then channel those who excel and have the ability to rise to greatness to learn all they can teach them as well as to think for themselves and solve problems. The government succeeds at little except making war and making politicians rich. I do not believe you can teach all students on one level / one overall standard, and meet the needs of children like Jimmy and Michael. Each is unique and requires special handling. Even without government assistance and meddling I have little confidence in the Public school systems of the USA.
    My closest friend Home schooled his children quite successfully for all concerned. I suspect today that is the route to go. "Common Core" is BS in my way of thinking. Also it is wrong in my reading of the Constitution.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
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  16. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Tac... you are correct ... there are outliers... 88 is low and 146 is high... but is it unreasonable for the "average" student in the various states to be able to do the same math? have the same or similar writing abilities? Common core does not try to teach all at one level... it teaches a basic level with opportunities to excel wherever there are better programs...

    This where I feel the true crux of the matter is... what should be the basic level? and how do we address the exceptions... Universal text books are not going to happen regardless of common core... Texas will have different textbooks than New York.. and yes each one will probably tell history/science from different perspectives... in English some books will be banned from reading lists because of parental complaints and perceptions... But that is the states using their constitutional rights...

    {climbs on a small soapbox for the following comments...}

    Part of the issues is that the current Education system was designed in the 1800s to teach wealth white males.. and is based on a visually cued learning system... Currently all students are not white males... why use the same system?

    Simplistically there are three major learning styles... Visual, Aural, and Kinesthetic. Instead of making magnet schools in science technology math and engineering maybe we should consider reforming our schools to teach in these areas... and send students to the schools where they can do their best not to a school where they are designed to fail...

    There is only one problem.. most teachers teach in the manner in which they learn.. our current school system is designed to work best for visually cued learners, and as a result surprise, surprise... we perpetuate our current learning system. and as they say it's insane to keep doing things the same way and expect different results... The Mind Boggles...

    { Steps off soap box}
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  17. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    I believe there should be minimum standards on a national level (OMG, did I say that?), to graduate from HS. This should be closely monitored at a State level (where it is supposed to be) to ensure it is purely academic and not politically biased. The Federal Government does not have an acceptable record to have full and unrestricted control in matters of education. .... and damn it, the Constitution says so!
    I have no problem with different learning systems being tried on students to see what works best for each and every individual student. I want the young to be given the opportunity to excel academically in the way that is best for them. I just don't trust the government on a federal level to fully administer this. I don't feel this is paranoid behavior or unfair to the federal government, because in so many ways they have failed in the past.
    In my mind, to trust the government without restraint and close oversight would be insane!
    I don't have all the answers. Far from it. But the Public school system in my mind is broken as it is.
    tulianr likes this.
  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Two comments come to mind.

    One) we constantly hear that we are behind the rest of the world in this subject or that subject. But we never hear how those subjects are taught elsewhere. Just the scores. How do other countries teach THEIR students, and would that model work here?

    Two) what I'm seeing of common core, is math matters most. It does not seem to even allow for excellence, it teaches to the "lowest common denominator" in students. The only way for all students to have the same level of education at graduation, is to hold back the best to the level of the least!!!

    Common core may be INTENDED as a basic building block, but teachers have to teach to pass tests, they have only so much time, class sizes are often overloaded, little jonney is an ass but can't be kicked out, again. Shela is more interested in her hair and makeup, and can't go an hour without a a touch up. You have various groups (cliques) that may or may not mingle, buildings that leak when it rains, and no air conditioning. Unions that interfere with firing a failure of a teacher, or a janitor who peeps on the students in the bathrooms, text books that omit history it doesn't like or rewrites the truth. Old math, new math, million man math, guestmation, show your work, DON'T show your work, your answer is right, but your method is wrong for today's lesson plan, (it is sometimes a wonder they learn much at all.)
    Common core is a small part of a bigger problem. Our methods are chaotic, our tools are twisted and bent, and our methods are counter-productive.
    This is why I agree with uniforms in schools, it is one less issue to deal with. It is easier on the budget, and is one less distraction in class. It also sets a tone, (you are in school mode now) .
    Then we hit politics. Politics between teachers and principles (seen it) politics between schools and school board (seen it) politics between school board and state (seen it) and between state and Fed (everyone's seen it)

    We do need a common standard to teach by, and a common goal to try to achieve, but common core is the lowest common level, deeply flawed, and with no real effort to go beyond it.

    So yes, we do need a minimum level, but we need a method of allowing those who can do better to excel, and those who are truly is a crime to hold them back as we do.
  19. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    It's my understanding that common core math is based on the Japanese math model.. The testing is over done and doesn't really measure much.... especially teacher output... the whole teacher based on the test rating does more damage than good...
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Dunno about the Japanese model, but there is a remote resemblance to an abacus in the way they break down numbers.
    Witch Doctor 01 likes this.
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