I feel a reluctance.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by M118LR, May 25, 2017.


  1. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    History is nothing more than a learning tool, please don't shy away from the ideas that could add to my learning curve. Anytime folks can share what was, these are indications of folks that can't express what the future may be. But you might have to justify why things are going to change, and why they are better than the solutions of the folks that lived beyond things that occurred in the past. Proven success has an attitude. Past performance is not indicative of future success. Please be bold enough to make me not play well with others.
     
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  2. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu RIP 4/19/2018

  3. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Life can be a learning experience and life patterns differ. My take on most of the individuals here, or at least their writings, is that most choose to be friendly wolverines, fiercely independent, don't run with the crowd, and willing to help others, it definitely does not resemble an ant or bee hive with everyone having a place and no one thinking. I expect to get my toes stepped on and called to task, that seems to be how I learn best and I don't play well in our present politically correct society. If I were a musician I would definitely be a Jazz player and not a concert piano player.
     
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I often find that, the older a person becomes, the less likely they are to accept new ideas. That being said, there's something to being older (and it's certainly not always wisdom), which is an acute sense of tradition. Now, this can work both ways and be just as detrimental as helpful. For example, an aged person may recall a time when there were fewer laws and a lot less crime as well. Government has only grown in size and scope with time, it hasn't become smaller and less abusive. By this observation, one can ascertain that government does nothing to hinder crime, in fact it doesn't really work at all and has been proven to actually cultivate crime. However, at the same time, the aged person will most likely hold onto the traditional authority of their upbringing and choose to remain supportive of government, even if it may very well be bloated, corrupt, and entirely illegitimate. In other words, the world has changed for the worse around them, but because they still hold the perceptions of the past as standing "proof" of how good it was, they invariably trick their own minds into believing everything is going to be alright. The positive aspect of this is the memory itself, the chance to learn from the past and possibly teach others. It's just a shame that far too many do not analyze and compare current events with the past, for if they did they might find we are dancing in circles on the edge of a cliff.
     
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    That could be. But there are at least two reasons for it. First (and the one most younger folks will think of) is that age has stiffened the mind as well as the joints. The second just could be that the ancient experiences (wisdom?) says that the new ideas really aren't new and have been tried, found wanting, and rejected already. (Some might say that is learning from the past to avoid repetition as you suggest.)
     
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  6. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    We tend to be circling the same drain, still haven't pulled the plug and started fresh yet. Same this, same that. The problems of the world are still the same. No matter the advancement with technology, we are still the same beings prone to do the same dumb things over and over. You mentioned why things are going to change, they have not changed, they are moving backwards. Brokor mentioned memories,I believe memories soften overtime. Actually maybe not memories but history softens over time. Our time in history is now better or worse then prior times.

    Never heard anyone asking not to play nice. We have some prime debaters that can run circles around most folks.

    giphy.
    LOL!
     
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I couldn't possibly agree more. But there is a difference between a "new idea" that works and a "new idea" that just plain sucks. Just because it works doesn't mean it is in practice, either. Remember the greatest shortcoming to Democracy: majority rules.
     
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  8. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    One of the issues that we seem to be facing is, that we have accumulated enough knowledge on enough subjects that we are now having trouble, in all honesty, of remembering it all, and sifting out the drivel from the insights, and being able to process it in a coherent realtime manner.

    Kind of on this subject, I get irritated as all hell on here sometimes, when people bring up something, and a HISTORICAL answer is offered, and everyone ignores it, or talks over it, even though the ANSWER to the question is KNOWN.

    I think sometimes we don't want to hear a simple or known answer, and want to play at "discovering" something. Which is one way that we move forward, as a society and occasionally as a species, but it is also how we lose so much that we held dear.
     
  9. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    But does that which we hold dear interfere with our ability to come up with a different answer than in the past?
    i.e. The military is always fighting the last war.
     
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  10. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    You can only learn lessons in the present or past. Learning future lessons is magic. Haha.

    Honestly, the military is often slow to progress and wrongheaded, looking at the history, but they do have their reasons, including budgets, training, etc...the Trapdoor rifle comes to mind...most people think it is stupid we did not adapt to a Winchester, etc, so soon after the war...and sight the ammo concerns as unfounded. Most people do not know that is was over a decade after the Civil War before marksmanship was taught. Or that lessons learned in one war, in one country, will consistently hold true for warfare from that point on.
     
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  11. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    But history is always written by the victor. What if the vanquished has found a different solution than the one they attempted?

    ie. Did Japan capitulate because of the Bomb, or was it the fear of Russia?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  12. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Ah, we are discussing causal effects? I would say that somebody had the good sense to ignore Japans crazy "this is the way it is done" and see the writing on the way that the best time to capitulate is when they did. Very interesting culture, Japan. Not a lot I think they are the "most right" about, but they have their thing, and they are good at it...have a problem taking things WAY too far though, looking at their history.

    Ultimately, unless we have some...notes on the thoughts of that person to refer to, all we have is our INTERPRETATION of events, and that is where we wonder.
     
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  13. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I grew up listening to stories and histories of my Grand Parents, and I especially enjoyed the tails my Pop Pop would tell of his time in the Army during WW-2. He often spoke very harshly of the British and their leadership, he spoke of the wanton waste and abandonment of life, and the horrors he experienced as a young Captain. He was always fond of saying there is the right way, the wrong way, and the U.S. Army way!
    Fast Forward to my enlistment in the Air Force, and so much of my Pop Pop's words of wisdom were still true. When we went to the sand box #1, the Air Force was still operating the same mission as was done in Vietnam, using much of the same equipment and training! I was fortunate ( on unfortunate) in that I got to see and be an integral part of the magical transformation that happend within the A.F. that saw us become what we were always meant to be. Some of that was quite painful, and some of it was pure awesomeness, but it tuned us into the worlds best A.F. and we have been improving on that ever sence!
    Wisdom can come from many places, and accepting it or challenging it is a normal course of action here in our monkey tree, and each little bit adds up to a wealth of knowledge for all to benefit from. History is often incorrect, as the one writing or telling it has only the knowledge of things passed on to them, not actually experienced by them, or it gets twisted in the telling over time, and we loose critical facts and information in the process. Re hashing old ideas is always a fun experience, and some times new thoughts and ideas can come out of these discussions, and offer fruitful solutions not explored before!
    I hold my elders in the highest respect, they have experienced things I may never be able to do, or ever wish I could, they have gained their knowledge through action and challenges I may never face or may never have to learn. I can benefit greatly from that if I keep my eyes and ears open, and more importantly, My Mind open!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Seems obvious to me, but then would they not then be the victor? The victor, it seems to me, to have earned the right to write the history. Well can I see some of the consequences of that as in burying some hard truths, but no less the right was earned.
     
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  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    It ought to be a privilege to record history as it stands while still being a truthful account of what occurs. If one side is led by corrupt men who seek to plunder and spoil and who also happen to be the victors, what does this say about the version of history they will write?
     
  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I think modern times have seen more of both sides of history being written thanks to better means of communication, but the trap is not always is it possible to verify facts with legend in the telling! Will we ever get the full history from all angles? only those that tell it will truly know!
     
    M118LR, sec_monkey and Motomom34 like this.
  17. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    I remember.....

    When there were only 2 genders.
    When you made a deal with a handshake.
    When Grandparents taught kids to drive tractors at 12 years old...with a beer.
     
  18. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Learned to drive a John Deere tractor as a kid, couldn't reach the clutch pedal on the Farmall, the John Deere had a hand clutch, so they said to use it to cultivate corn and haul hay wagons, lots of switchel and lemon aide, no beer..
     
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  19. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

  20. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    Well...first, you need to do one of 2 things:
    A. Tell me what's in it for me. OR
    B. Convince me you're worth the trouble.
     
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