I fought for you

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by tacmotusn, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

  2. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    It do now!:D
  4. bonehed927

    bonehed927 Monkey+

    Great video. Every kid should see this in school.
  5. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    They also served......

    I hope the young people in that theatre, also understood and appreciated the fact that it wasn’t just the good ol’ white male boys that fought for them. The young people there ought also to reflect upon the fact that many good ol’ girls, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native American Indians, Nisei Americans (and a host of other ethnicities) did so too. They should also be aware, that lesbians and gay men also fought for them, despite being persecuted for their sexual orientation. And finally, they should also be aware that atheists, agnostics, wiccans, heathens and pagans also fought them, some with distinction. Not for God; but because they felt it to be their duty and that it was the right and honourable thing to do.


    Military history of African Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Indians in the Military

    Hispanic Americans in the U.S. Army

    Don’t forget us, Nisei veterans plead | Military News - The News Tribune

    The Second "Burning Times Award": Representative Bob Barr of Georgia

    Pagan Veterans Organization Forming - A Pagan's Blog

    I hope that that might justly put the record straight.

    Capt “Valdi” Chelloveck , R.F.D., RAINF (rtd)
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  6. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The problem that I have is understanding how they are fighting for me? How are they defending my freedom? I can cheer our military in that they are the most technologically advanced killing machine ever devised to support imperialism, but give me a break with this flag waving crap until someone actually explains to me how the price of Haliburton stock has ****-all to do with my freedom?
    If our military were defending our borders against the invading Mexican mafia, I would support them as protecting my freedom. If they were to surround Washington D.C. in siege until Congress agreed to perform their elected duties within the guidelines of our Constitution, then I would support our military. I fully recognize that we need wars to feed the Military/Industrial Complex and support the economy, but I am tired of all the flag-waving crap about it. A multi-use digging implement is still a spade and I don't care who is offended by being called one. Until then, I will change the channels whenever I see our Boys goose-stepping down main street.
  7. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Sorry you feel that way cowboy... as a Vet i can appreciate your views vis a vis halliburton etc... but i seriuosly doubt many vets joined with the fact that some one might profit from their service... Most joined (in my belief) to serve their country... Many of us were injured /wounded
    in that service and many more gave their lives for it... the mere fact that we can have this conversation on a forum is a tribute to those who went before...

    I respect your right to disagree on the military's use to provide you with your liberties and won't try to change your mind on the military industrial complex issues... if you haven't served it's difficult to try to explain..

    I have 5 family members currently serving one each in in Afganistan and Iraq (1 army ,1 AF,1 Navy, 2 Marines...

    Suffice it to say that i'm grateful for all who served and continue to servein the armed forces of our Nation.
  8. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I guess any soldier in national army feels the same...German, US, British, Russian...opposite sides, different ideologies, similar feelings. They all believed they were fighting for good of their country...even German soldiers in WW2 and US soldiers in Iraq...Both manipulated by ruthless govt...
  9. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Actually I understand Iraq... it's like poker... someone says i have a full house... (read WMD's) and i'm gonna use them on you (ok so i 'm not quoting Saddam word for word... ) Sometimes if the pot is big enough you have to call their Bluff... a little over simplified i admit Where there WMD's in Iraq .. noDid Saddam claim to have WMD's... Yes... did He threaten using WMD's on the US and it's allies ... yep... had Saddam used them in the past... Yeppers... we called their bluff... made some big mistakes after we went in but i can't fault the initial logic... Bush just didn't explain it that well...:rolleyes:
  10. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I'm not aware that Saddam ever claimed he had WMD or that he threatened with using them against US. There were claims that he used gas years ago, but not recently at that time. He claimed that he stopped producing gas WMD 15 years earlier...Which proved to be true. Govt just lied as an excuse to attack Iraq...Vietnam reason were communists, Korea same, Kosovo excuse was human rights, Afghanistan terrorism, Iran now nukes, North Korea same...Always is the most developed and strongest country in the world in danger and has reason to attack someone...It's getting boring already.
    Why don't they just say "we attack anyone we want because we can and because we don't care about our soldiers dying, or civilians, women, children, whatever...we only care about our profits"...why all the drama and patriotism talk?
    Even birds and bees around the world know the truth by now...All that bs-ing is insulting the intelligence of people around the world...
  11. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    There certainly was some misguided reasons for OIF. Having been there for some 27 months, I can tell you that if AQ didn't fight us there, it would have been somewhere else. The general Sunni terrorist in Iraq has his own reasons for fighting, but make no mistake about it- AQ was/is the primary source of expertise, foreign weapons, direction, and foreign fighters into that particular conflict. I don't think most Americans have a problem with our pursuit of AQ after 9-11 (although there are a few with some crazy theories). What most Americans don't realize, is the actual involvement AQ has around the world. As we speak, there is a battle unseen going on in the Pacific, operations in Africa (now that AFRICOM is up, we will see more intelligence flow resulting in more operations), and of course the ongoing operations in AFG that seem to be spilling over more and more into Pakistan. All the fights are against AQ. They won't rest and neither should we. For what it's worth, Iraqis could care less about Halliburton. The vast majority that I befriended were more than glad to see us. Sometimes we may get pulled into things for the wrong reasons. What matters is what we do with it.

    That's just my humble opinion.
  12. Joseph Thomas

    Joseph Thomas Monkey+

    I will change the channels whenever I see our Boys goose-stepping down main street.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    Absolutely your right to do so. Have you seen real goose stepping? I don't think our guys are doing it along with all the conotations of your statement. Most people in the military don't particularly love the government. But for the majority they do love their country and believe serving is one way to pay back all the gifts our society has given us. Now, It may not be that way in the future. But for my father (WWII), My brother (Vietnam), Me (Korea-Cold war) and my Sister (GW1) it was our faith in our countrymen that made service seem like the right thing to do. Not flaming you just telling you how I feel.

    As far as Saddam, He did say in the weeks following 911 that if the U.S messed with Irag he would leave our cities heaps of melted glass and that our grandchildren would live a stone age like existence. So yeah, I think he was trying to say he had nukes. We now know they talked a lot of smack. Maybe said to us but directed at the Iranians. Who the hell knows, but he did say it.
  13. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I hear the platitudes but I still haven't heard an explanation? I understand the honorable profession of warrior and soldier but back to the flag waving and duty calls; how is this defending Freedom in ANY manner? My whole point is that most Americans, including military, have bought into the notion that they are serving a greater good but when asked what it is, they all seem to revert to waving the flag around some more rather than reaching for a real answer. "Well, I lost my leg over there" doesn't answer how that has anything to do with defending freedom. Plumbers don't get parades, in spite of protecting us from backed-up toilets. Being a soldier is a job and that job, presently in the United States, is projecting power throughout the world, not in spreading or defending democracy or freedom.
  14. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Let me see if I can put it more plainly. I think what has you spun up is a our tendency to be "PC".

    There are Muslim Terrorists/Militants that want to kill you and me. They will fight us until it's resolved. They don't care about US interests in the ME and if we pulled out tomorrow, they would still come at us. They will stop it nothing to destroy our freedom. They have several fronts. Some overseas, even some here. If you have ever had a real conversation with one of these people, I have with several, they don't care about anything but making you submit to Islam. These people are in IZ, AFG, and eslewhere. That is who I fought.

    If you don't buy it as a threat to freedom, that's your decision. I'm not flag waving, but on 9/12/2001, pretty much everyone understood it's threat to freedom. Over 2,700 had their freedom snuffed out permanently. They will try again... just wait.
  15. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Huh....ummmm....down Bane, down...bad Bane...hushhhh...
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Ever been to IZ Bane? Ever detained Jordanian terrorists there? If not, your opinion need not apply. What the hell does a Jordanian care about getting the US out of IZ..... nothing. He just wants to fight and kill Americans. You could try and argue the whole Muslim helping a Muslim argument.... unless you know how luke-warm-Muslim Iraqis really are.

    Now here is an easy question.... that same Jordanian terrorist...... where do you think he would be if he wasn't in IZ fighting?

    Unfortunately, that isn't the sort of information that the media latches on to. Go figure. I don't blame Americans for their lack of knowledge of the situation, I blame the media (along with the higher ups that allow these questions to go unanswered).
  17. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Until the government really changes, there will be no changes. Carry on now, nothing to see here.
  18. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I'd say the government is sound... it's the people in the government we need to change.

    (ETA: or exchange)
  19. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    How come ALL terrorists want to kill Americans? Why not Japanese...or Greeks...or Italian? Any Americans ever killed in their own country, in US, by terrorists?...Just don't say 9/11, please! Even birds know by now who did that!
    So, why do all "terrorists" hate Americans? Is it because US is helping IZ since it was made? Is it because US was supplying IZ with weapons and intelligence, even nukes? Or did those farmers just woke up one day and said "It's a nice morning...Lets go kill some Americans!". Did you check the stats how many people in Muslim countries did US kill so far? Did you see how many casualties US caused so far?
    When US was "helping" Albanians in Kosovo agains Milosevic, do you know how many depleted uranium bombs they dropped on Kosovo? Do you know cancer death rate in Kosovo now?
    Wasn't it US that created those terrorists in the first place? Who made Osama? Jordan or CIA? What happened in Afghanistan? The Taliban eradicated the poppy fields and completely destroyed heroin production, and now Afghanistan in covered in poppy! Who's doing the harvesting and distribution? Who has control?
    Don't you see than no one on this planet is buying that US govt crap anymore! Nobody believes anymore in US govt bs about democracy, human rights, etc... Do you know that US troops are only troops in the world that can't be brought to International War Crimes Tribunal? Do you think the world doesn't know that? Do you think that's OK? Does any other country have prisons, where US or any other govt, kidnaps foreign citizens, tortures them and keeps them imprisoned indefinitely?
    Any other country pushes its nose constantly in other countries business?
    Any other country playing world police, attacking countries left and right for its own financial interests? Any other country destroying other countries so it can steal their resources?
    And since I live only 30 kilometers from Kosovo border, where US dropped tons of radioactive material, and because US troops dumped tons of the same ammo, different undisclosed liquids and god knows what kind of other crap in the lakes all over Balkans, I have every right to voice my opinion!
  20. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    BAne your info is off a little i think... what "tons of radioactive material" are you speaking of?
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