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Ideas On A Furnace

Discussion in 'Buy Sell Trade' started by Brokor, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    My brother wants to place a 22"Hx24"Wx20"D wood furnace inside his existing fireplace to optimize what is there now, for additional reasons I have yet to discuss with him.

    Does any one here have any ideas, and if anybody may have a small furnace to sell, please let me know. The cheapest he found is for $1000, but I told him to wait.
  2. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Are you talking about a wood fireplace insert when calling it a furnace?
    If so they make a model to fit all fireplaces, some you need to get the dampener in the flue out of the way for the pipe. some don't have a pipe at all.
    It hard to say what he needs without seeing what he has.
    Get a couple of bids from installers and then we will see what they are installing and will be able to find a cost effective brand and model for him.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yeah, I know for a fact that nobody is going to install this thing except him. He wants a steel furnace to insert into the existing fireplace. He will do the work to customize the pipe and everything else on his own. Basically, I just wanted to know if anybody had any ideas offhand. I will keep searching, but it's good to check in here once in a while just in case.

    EDIT- And to clarify, I do not know for certain if he wants an insert or a furnace. I would go for an insert personally, but I know how crafty he can be sometimes. Sorry for not clarifying before.
  4. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member


    check out this link. Fireplaces suck as heat sources (better than nothing), but I came across this site a while back and, although I think the veggie-earth, tree hugging mindset behind the maker is nuts, what he has accomplished is intriguing for the prepper for the reasons we would be considered nuts by others. This is a woodstove that has been modified to be a masonry furnace. Much better generator than a strict furnace.

  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Thanks man! Yes, I agree that this guy is more of a vegafreak non earth sucker than I typically like. Still, a lot of good stuff.
  6. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    If starting from scratch, you can also build (inside the masonry a section of duct work with a grill or return at top and at bottom on both sides of the heat source. This will cause the heat to rise within the ducts and act as a heat pump to draw in cooler air at the floor, and pump out hotter air above as long as the heat is on. keeps the air mixing, like a ceiling fan. They also make what are called ECO-FANS. these use a pelitser (spelling) chip to generate power for the fan from waste heat coming through the stove top. Just set it on top and the fan will run forever with out batteries, or AC. These fans cost about $60. last time I checked.
  7. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Been ther, done that. Designed a custom insert that included forced air heat extractor. Worked fine, better than the stock fireplace. Check online for Franklin's Stove which was about what I built, abt 1974.

    OTOH and better too, use a quality box stove in front of the fireplace, good reasons for this. You can take it with you. More efficent. Easier to install.

    Many models out there that mimic a fireplace with heat proof glass in the front .

    My second insert was with a Box Stove install with the JOTUL airtight brand.
  8. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    We have a Pacific Energy Summit insert and it makes serious heat. Passes EPA Class II without a catalytic. We have two cord stacked and as there is a lot of down timber we will be adding more.
  9. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    With the exception of the glass front fhe Pacific Energy Summit insert, looks a lot like my first design. The vents on the sides are a lot like the "towers" I built and had a blower in another room that moved the warmed air into the living room., of course I did not have any front doors.

    Looks like they did a good job on that insert, glad to hear it works for you.
  10. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    I have these , AND live this way.
    The fans use a thermocouple power generation of DC power. The motors last 2 years (i've gone thru 10+ on 4 fans) .
    They need a a warming plate to be installed on a direct woodstove/AIRTIGHT !!

    I have lived with with wood stoves since the 70's (cook / heat air/water).The first were poor in efficiency , till the true airtight , I started with fisher/franklins , had many other makes , now run 3 real airtights.
    My DHW is from the modified Pacific Summit on pedestal.
    You MUST feed the wood stove with external air to support combustion, you must have good exhaust flues & alarms with temp gauges.
    YOU MUST clean ashes , exhaust flue ,stove pipe, chimney regularity (depends on type of wood & age of dryness) ..

    All of the Mods with external air support / water jackets / thermocouples for power excluding the ecofans are all custom built .

    Inserts are more trouble to plumb correctly to work as they should.

    Since the cold has hit this fall , fire departments are busy washing ashes away after fireplace fires from under maintained stoves .
    These are as tricky as Kids / pets / wives/ husbands and as much maintenance .

  11. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    There is another version that uses no electric motors to fail. Try the sterling engine version.

    "How does it work?
    The Vulcan stove fan does not require any electricity whatsoever! No batteries. No mains electricity. The Vulcan is self powered just from the heat of the stove. It utilizes a small, quiet Stirling cycle power plant built into the fan. Making it a very eco friendly fan.

    The Stirling cycle power plant obtains its power from rapidly heating and cooling the same volume of air. When the air is heated, it expands, pushing a piston upward; when the same volume of air is rapidly cooled, it contracts, pulling the same piston downward, providing power. The same volume of air is heated and cooled very rapidly converting the heat energy to mechanical energy used to turn the fan blade.

    The Vulcan's fan speed increases relative to the temperature increase of its heat source. So, the hotter your stove, the faster the Vulcan will run and the higher the volume of air circulated. The Vulcan stove fan uses the latest and best technology, including borosilicate glass cylinder, graphite piston and ultra low friction demagnetised bearings to ensure it is completely maintenance free. You never have to oil it ! " And it's got a three year factory warranty
    VULCANSTOVEFAN(1)-450. Over in Europe, they have a Sterling engine, at the focus of a satellite dish sized parabolic mirror , running a generator. I don't remember the output, but it was a pretty good sized generator.
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Pacific Energy machines the plate, then stoves are "robot" welded which makes for a nice looking stove. What makes it different is temperature adjusted combustion air. Here is a better explanation of how it works than mine would be ;) http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm

    One of my garage workshop favorites was a double barrel stove, ugly but it put out some serious heat. ;) I've heated with wood for years with one exception, a solar home in Michigan.
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    "What makes Pacific Energy different is temperature adjusted combustion air."

    Certainly something my first "purchased" Jotul 118 lacked. I still use the Jotul 118 in a secondary living area, this for storms or extra cold winter.

    If I purchased now then I'd go for the http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-118-CB-Black-Bear/
    Jøtul F 118 CB Black Bear

    One of Jøtul's most popular and most imitated wood stove is back! Winner of the 2005 Vesta Design & Technology award, the Jøtul F 118 CB Black Bear combines the simple elegance and utility of the original Jøtul118, with modern solid fuel combustion technology. Incorporating Jøtul's new Crossflow™ non-catalytic secondary combustion system and our legendary front-to-back "cigar burn", this stove is the pinnacle of clean burn efficiency and maximum burn time. Holding strong to it's Norwegian roots the Jøtul F 118 CB Black Bear still features the decorative front plate that translates as follows: "I built me a flame late one night. When day is done, God will my flame never die out." Popular options include: screen for open door fire viewing, fresh air kit, and rear and side heat shields.

    I'm a bit stuck on simiplicity and do not care for too many moving parts. The Jotul 118 CB has a like system as the Pacific Energy and even a "start fire" mode that allows more fresh air to the rear of the stove so that a good draft is experienced as you light your first fire.
  14. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Kellory , nice info on the Brit Stirling Stove Fan ..

    A bit of promo :http://www.internationallife.tv/Vulcan-Stove-Fan

    And now the reality of the 250.00 dollar toy.
    Imagine , middle of the night , a connecting rod brg goes ,,,thud,thud,thud,thud,thud,thud,thud,thud'thud,thud,thud,thud WTF !!!:eek:

    As I posted ,I have figured out these eco-fans over the years.
    Our Caframo Ecofan's at the beginning were a royal pain in $$$ , the instructions seemed to say that the stove could go on the stove top.
    But in real fine print only to a MAX temp of (guessing here so lets say 450f, this is just sunday morn 1/2 coffee in).
    After the winter season the fans seemed to get slower or stop working .After going the warranty route & exchange deals , these are just a expensive toys to me. So i dissembled them and found areas that failed .Hooked up sensors and replaced the motor that Canframo sold me.
    Heat gun on stove showed WAY over max temp, the bimetallic lifting mechanism that is used to lift /less transfer of heat works way too late, damage is done. I made tables so the fan sits off the stove tops.
    1/4 aluminum plate 5X6 " mounted on three legs (self balancing no rattle ) of pan head stainless steel machine screws that gives the table an air break of the size of the head of the screw & two phenolic fibre washers . Raise's the fan up 1/2' max but still keeps it stable but runs much cooler. I now get 4 years on motors , buy them out of china delivered for a few bucks each, same as the thermol chip.

    These spacers tables are painted black , three are mount on the main stove for fans /kettle's to add moisture or lower temps down to cook..I'll see if I can post a picture. Dust is standard option with any wood stove guys.

  15. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Nice approach for the electrics, but the Sterling runs faster the hotter it gets, so it is self regulating. And I have the skills to build and repair a Sterling. It's using nothing but air pressure and heat. A simple toy kit Sterling will run off the heat of your hand, though it does no real work.
  16. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Jotel's are excellent, I had one once. After I read they had to be replaced, I really didn't want a catalytic stove.

    First fire was an unexpected experience. The temperature will be 39 tonight and 35 tomorrow night.
  17. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Myself I also have skills , So where did you purchase your British Sterling Vulcan (I remember the the plane from years back while in Brit Service).

    Seems to be in Europe only. Im Pacific North Wets .

  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I do not yet have one. I have too many projects right now, but I will build a few when I can find the time, and the parts. Sterlings are an interest of mine. They are simple in function, and if built well seem to last a very long time. The only real reason they are not more popular, is they have a low power to size ratio. But there are Sterling powered generators, gocarts, fans, and even the ridiculas Sterling powered canoe! That Vulcan is both smooth and quiet, well made, and simple in design. I will do my best to produce something of similar quality for my own use.
  19. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Basic Jotuls are all I need in my area, 41 tonight, 75 tomorrow, no rain.
  20. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    It is mountainous here with winds.

    "Tonight: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 39. Breezy, with a northwest wind 21 to 23 mph, with gusts as high as 33 mph."

    I'm in western NC where the elevation adds to it.
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