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If You Carry a Gun in America

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Legion489, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Legion489

    Legion489 Shining the Light of Truth

    GOG, arleigh, Yard Dart and 4 others like this.
  2. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Nice and he is in AZ too
  3. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey++

    Good read. And he's in AZ, too.
    (Did someone already say that?)
    AD1 likes this.
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Notes from my Enhanced class. Please forgive if it is already known but worth repeating...


    It is NEVER acceptable to use deadly force to defend property against human beings.
    (Think about this...)


    The ABILITY - power to kill or cripple

    Ability can take many forms: Weapon, Disparity of force (permits use of deadly force against unarm aggressor, Force of Numbers (dicey if aggressors get down to two), Able-bodied against the disable, Male against female (can use a gun against rape because rape is violence, not sex but know that 79% rapists are unarmed), Physical size and strength (vague, unless attacker is known to you as being boxer or expert martial artist, etc…)

    The OPPORTUNITY – capable of employing that power

    Can he/she immediately employ that power? This is normally judge by two criteria: Distance and Obstacles (within 21 feet or less and/or more than 1 attacker)

    The JEOPARDY – person acting in such a manner that reasonable and prudent person believes that intend to kill or cripple. (general this is where attacker has a gun)

    You need ALL THREE factor (Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy) in order to use deadly force.

    There is much, much more…for example, if you have modified your weapons in any manner (new trigger, etc) the prosecution more than likely will try to use this to show you as some sort of self-vigilantly

    So…this is what I try to tell my wife but she cannot understand that if she happened upon someone breaker into the house and he/she is running away she cannot shot them, can’t do it and if it comes to that make sure you shoot them in the front and not the back, “They were coming toward you, right sweets? In a threaten manner, right? And, you were afraid for your life, correct?” Yes. Yes. And, yes…

    I really need to take this course again as it was super! And, they do not charge me again as I can sit it as many times as I want. I hope this helps… Rick
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  5. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    And if you can shoot to wound, you don't need to shoot at all. You can not escalate, or introduce lethal force to the equation.
    Only if lethal force is being used against you, can you (generic )respond with lethal force.
    In Ohio, we also have the requirement to retreat. (We just lost stand your ground)
    Bandit99 likes this.
  6. techsar

    techsar Monkey++

    That depends on the state law...here (Louisiana), it is legal.
    Gator 45/70, Bandit99 and Tikka like this.
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    In Alaska we have Stand Your Ground, Constitutional Carry, and a No Duty to Retreat Statute, that states if you can legally be In a place, you have No duty to Retreat, from where you stand. and If Bodily Harm is Imminent, to YOU, or Your Innocent Fellow Humans, you can Legally Put the Perp Down, and OUT, for Good....
    Bandit99 and kellory like this.
  8. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Same in NC
  9. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    I also carry a $1.1 Million policy from USCCA for defensive use of a firearm. Cost ~$350/yr.

    Tag someone, call a 800 number 24/7, they provide bail, and an atty and tons of other services.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Yes and I imagine that is correct for many states...sorry, I didn't mean to generalize and was trying get the text copied as was in hurry to finish...I had to leave.

    I did a bit of googling and the gist of Idaho Castle Doctrine is unlike @BTPost Alaska's Stand Your Ground law in...
    "Idaho...If you are forced to pull your weapon, it must be done so under one condition only: "The loss of limb or life...Castle Doctrine is a legal doctrine which designates a person's home, workplace, or other legally recognized location as an area which affords certain protections and immunities to use force to defend themselves against an intruder and to be free from legal responsibility and/or prosecution of the consequences of such use, deadly or otherwise. However, the imminent threat to life or limb standard still applies!" ....Obviously not as good as Alaska....

    I thought of one other thing that was in the class that I can pass on: alcohol. They said that if the defendant (the shooter) had used any amount of alcohol the opposing attorney would go right after that trying to place 'doubt' in the jury's mind, said even if one was hang over... Rick
    PS. I knew there was a reason I wanted to move to Alaska. I am actually shocked Idaho doesn't have the same law...
  11. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Someone breaking into a home while people are asleep is a legitimate threat to life and limb.

    Here to get by the Pitts, they have to kill them which would really upset me.
  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Doing more reading (below) it appears Idaho does have a Stand Your Ground law sort of...

    "Perhaps the most important aspect of the Castle Doctrine, or in this case the Idaho statue, there is no duty to retreat from the intruder (provided the intruder is in the home, workplace, or other legally defined area) before defending oneself. Keep in mind, the absence of the duty to retreat is strictly and solely limited to your home, workplace, or other legally designated area for the context of this discussion. Idaho state laws should not be confused with "Stand your Ground Laws" which are applied to public locations."

    "Idaho Stand Your Ground Law
    The premise of the "Stand Your Ground Law" is essentially an extension of the "Castle Doctrine" but intended to be applied in a public location. Essentially it gives individuals the right to defend themselves while on any public property without the duty to retreat first from a dangerous situation.....As with all situations, the use of deadly force is available only if the individual fears for the loss of limb or life is imminent and the use of deadly force is immediately required. If an immediate threat is not present and deadly force is used, the Stand Your Ground Law couldn't possibly be used as a defense.
    Idaho does not have a specific law or set of codified statues which explicitly address or identify a "Stand Your Ground Law".
    What Idaho does have, is case law. Case law are cases where, even in the absence of a precise, written law, a series of existing laws apply the same results."

    So, I think the difference btw here and Alaska is 'loss of limb or life immediately required"... Rick
  13. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    @Tikka yes, this is the reason I shoot/train a lot at 21 feet but in all honesty that is a damn short distance/time to draw, aim and fire and hit a critical area to drop him. The better method I believe might be aim center of mass and shoot as fast as possible into him until he is down on ground, for me with the Glock 19 this would 15 rounds - Rick
  15. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    19: (b)(i) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or in a motor vehicle as defined by R.S. 32:1(40) when the conflict began, against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person using the force or violence reasonably believes that the use of force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.

    Louisiana law on the subject. Very clear, and surprisingly general.
    Gator 45/70 and Bandit99 like this.
  16. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    At that distance, personally I prefer a knife. It's quicker to use; if one knows how.
  17. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Yard Dart likes this.
  18. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    I've made a point with the Tuler drill in class that drawing and hitting a target before a person standing BEHIND you can reach the same distance as you to the target, and having someone charge at you and you doing the same thing is a whole 'nother ballgame. (With unloaded, don't start, unloaded pistol, aiming at a target ten feet to the left of the charging individual, from the holster.)

    If I get to throw the ax, and switch to my backup (Viking Style), If I'm within 21 feet, your chances of stopping me are over 75% in my favor. Haha.
  19. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    If I'm working at the time, you're screwed....:rolleyes: IMG_20150124_095421487.
  20. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    You asked if I wanted something to drink, I said yes, a screwdriver please...

    I ain't drinkin with you no more.
    Bandit99, Yard Dart and kellory like this.
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