Insides of a lock...

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by AndyinEverson, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Just for fun the inside of a Flintlock circa 1830-1840 ....Its a Brander & Potts Lock , made in England it is from one of my Trade Rifles...
    And the inside of a Percussion Lock circa 1850-1860...the lock is unmarked as to a is from a English Trade Pistol of mine.

    Percussion lock
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  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I am impressed by all of the inletting that has to be done to accommodate the lock in the frame of the pistol. It looks amazingly simple and makes me want to disassemble the cap lock on my Great Plains rifle.
  3. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    It is pretty is a better view of the inletting...and yes you should take your lock out and a clean it after shooting...your lock will have a coil spring ...not a leaf spring...
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  4. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Flintlocks were state of the art for over 200 years, modified became caplocks, modified again and still used in revolvers and such with cartridges. Thank you for sharing some interesting guns. Interesting how much you can do with so few parts, the trigger and its interactions with various sears to give single action, double action, automatic fire, changes in trigger pull, creep or such, double set to give one hard pull for safety and a second easy pull for accuracy, don't go down that rabbit hole or you may lose a day. A fire arm trigger group is a work of art and well worth studying.
    For a good taste of what can be done, look up how Browning set up the BAR model 1918 and how it handles single fire and auto, a true work of art as is a lot of his work. Simple, but incredibly complex once you really look at it with changes in angles, notch depth, intermediate parts used to release hammer, etc.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  5. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Before you start turning screws be sure to remove and be able to contain any spring tension, coil or leaf spring. There are specially fitted mainspring vices to compress some springs, but most machine shops will have some small clamp that will do the job. Without being able to take just enough tension off the springs to release them you risk damaging the tiny lock screw threads. Too much spring compression on a leaf spring will crack it.

    Original locks are particularly fun because lots of things are almost round and somewhat concentric and will have distinct wear patterns that must be respected during reassembly.

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  6. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Andy I had a Thompson center flintlock and that thing was the hardest thing to shoot and hit anything with. I could not hold still when that flash next to my head went of. So I sold it and now have a hi-wall and two Springfield trapdoors 45-70’s. I will be shooting blackpowder this deer season in the trapdoors and hi-wall. I love the smell of blackpowder on a frosty morn.
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  7. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    I rarely have to disassemble my locks on any of my muzzleloaders new or antique...
    ( that would be a chore...with having 30 odd muzzleloaders....:D )
    I do however remove the lock from the gun for cleaning after shooting or an extended display.

    A mainspring vise like shown in hot diggity's post is a must if you want to take apart your lock itself.
    Track of the Wolf , Dixie's Gun Works , The GunWorks and October Country are excellent places to find a mainspring vise as well as many other things you didn't know that you needed...until you saw how cool there are....:D
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  8. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    What is the ring on the grip/handle for?
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  9. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    If when shooting a flintlock...and the flash of the pan is a bit too much or close...
    Try a little less powder , in the pan...or prime from the horn ....2F seems to "flash less intense" than 4F.
    I rarely if ever use 4F any more for priming...all of my priming is from my powder horn which carries 2F.

    That said a flintlock needs this if you want it to go off :
    Good lock geometry ( basically the vent hole aligned with the center of the pan )...
    A hardened frizzen...
    A sharp flint...
    Clean and clear vent hole and pan....
    I have found that my powder needs to centered in the pan ,away from the vent hole and again you do not need a lot of powder in the pan...
    A strong mainspring...

    Flintlocks can be very reliable I enjoy shooting and hunting with them....they do take a longer learning curve so to speak...but they are fun.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  10. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Its a key ring for the fur trader to put his truck keys on , in case he needs to "get outta Dodge"....:D

    Just kidding...
    Its a ring so you can attach a lanyard to the pistol and not lose it when say traveling by horse or boat.
  11. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Something to keep in mind too is that up until the cap and ball the flint locks were all hand made some by unknown blacksmiths.
    There were no hard wear store to go to or gun shops ,the local black smith was the go to guy. All screws were hand made there was no standard for machinery so if you lost a screw it had to be custom made as well as any other part of the gun.
    Have had a few antique guns through the years that had mismatched screws some one was force to improvise .
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  12. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    While many locks were indeed made one at a time from local black smith or gun smith shops...

    The two that I have pictured were "factory made"* with many parts being "interchangeable" ...with some fitting of course
    Locks were imported by the thousands before and after our Revolution ...most of them were also "factory made".
    * as in a factory for guns and or gun parts...not a local gun smith or black smith

    During the fur trade ...a whole industry was made of making guns and as close to interchangeable parts for the use of the traders , trappers and tribes...
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  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    The mechanisms look so incredibly simple but when one thinks about how they represent man's advances in metallurgy, tooling, etc. it's simply fascinating!
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  14. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Speaking of the local black smith or gun smith making a gun...
    Here is a Royland South gate Longrifle...from 1950
    Percussion...Cherry stock...38 caliber ( load is 40 grains of 2F , .10 patch and a .375 round ball )
    South gate was a fine maker of rifles ...he made guns from the late 1940's till the late 1970's.
    He made all of his guns and gun parts "Lock , Stock and Barrel" by hand...he even hand rifled the barrels.
    The only factory part on this rifle is the nipple which is a Colt revolver nipple.



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  15. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Wow! That is a beauty! And, you can tell how far the craft advanced comparing your older rifles to this one.

    I truly believe firearms reflect mankind's advancement in civilization. When one stops to think of what it takes to push that chunk of lead down that steel barrel it's mind boggling. The chemistry to create the powder and the manufacturing process to refine it. The metallurgy to make and shape the parts and the use of alloys to strengthen them. Hell, even getting the metal out of the ground and refined! The technics evolved to shape a stock that was cut precisely to keep and hold the rifle components and hold up to hard usage and the pressures involved. And, the creativity and advancement that encompasses numerous disciplines for the simple purpose of creating a spark or causing the powder to ignite. On and on and on... It's simply amazing when one thinks about it...
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  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Andy, we got your report and closed it. Those emojis are automatically inserted based on the sequence of letters the software sees, 't'ain't your fault. If you send a PM to me and any other staffie with the real text, with spaces in it to eliminate the possibility of the same effect, we may be able to clear it up. Sorry 'bout that.
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  17. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Some more views of hand made items...this time patchboxes. and a "Federal Eagle" inlay..all from originals* from my collection.
    *originals as in from the late 1700's to 1800's

    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  18. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Now back to a "Factory made " gun...
    G. Laloux fowler or trade gun.
    Laloux was a Belgian gun maker / factory ...they made guns from 1834 or 1837 depending on which source is used..till 1922.
    Mine is a 20 gauge...original flintlock...39 inch barrel...European walnut half stock.
    I still shoot and hunt with this gun.

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  19. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    The craftsmanship and finishes are works of art and some of the grain patterns in the stocks and ram rods are no longer available. /thank you.
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  20. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    Here is the Flintlock , first pictured in this thread...
    In place on the Factory made Trade Rifle...the Factory in this case is J.Henry & Sons from Pennsylvania ...the lock itself was made by Brander & Potts , imported from England...the rifle is circa 1830-1840's
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