Is a .22 still considered a Firearm?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Seacowboys, Apr 10, 2010.


  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The original 1934 National Firearms Act excluded .22 rimfire weapons from the definition of regulated arms. There is a clause that states this quite plainly. A .22 rimfire was not considered a weapon and not subject to federal regulation or taxation. I wonder if this was amended subsequently or just ignored by the ATF? If they decided, for example, that a .22 rimfire machine gun needed to be regulated and taxed, then they either had to amend the firearms act or reclassify them as "AOW"s, which would make them subject to a five dollar tax rather than the $200.00 tax for real machineguns. It would also exclude them from the 89 "Firearms Owner's Protection Act" that banned the future import or manufacture of automatic weapons for civilian markets.
     
  2. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I think the problem with that would be the term machine gun. If a .22rimfire was converted to full auto that would fall under the jurisdiction of the NFA, and 1986 law banning newly manufactured MG's. I think the full auto aspect would be seen as trumping anything else. Legal...who knows, right, probably not. Would the jack boots haul you in for it regardless...hell yeah.
     
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I am well aware of the enforcement policies, Mag, but I am asking about the legality of that? It is my contention, that unless Congress changed something without telling us, then .22 rimfires are not considered "Firearms" and are not regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act. Al Capone wouldn't have carried a .22 Tommygun so they didn't think they had to regulate them. It is my contention, that the ATF arbitrarily classified them, against the written law, as regulated weapons. I contend that we, as Citizens might well bring a Class-Action Suit against that agency for the many violations of our rights and pull some of their teeth.
    I may well be wrong about this and there may have been subsequent legislation that made changes to the law. Does anyone have access to lexus-nexus or whatever that legal data-base is? I think it would be worth a few dollars to hire some legal researchers.
     
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Sounds like an interesting and valid 'loophole' to the law, BUT the Men In Black could keep it hung up in the courts forever if we brought suit - or King barry would just sign another illegal EO making the .22 same as all other guns.
     
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yup.

    The noose is tightening. And, I am having trouble with your endgame on this scenario, SC. Let's say, best case -the .22 is no longer included in any definitions, written or spoken, as firearms to be regulated. What then?

    The results will still be the same; British citizens were forced to turn in their .22's not long ago. The very last weapons to be confiscated are the .22 and shotgun varieties, typically because they are closely adopted to sporting and recreation.

    The noose tightens more.
     
  6. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Not sure, good question, although we fill out a 4473 stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal lawand the BATF institutes new law through their new regulations chances are it is, but worth reading about.
     
  7. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Interesting point. Not one I would be willing to be the guinea pig on. Given the room, BATFE would write pellet guns into their jurisdiction without any authority and would knock down someone's door over it.

    I can't wait to see the results of Montana's new law regarding firearms made and in state not being subject to federal regulation. Technically, the law is constitutional, but BATFE says they will prosecute just the same. Only thing lacking is a trial case (any takers? ;))
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I would step up if I had a notion that deep pockets were behind me. The question is muddied with the yellow sheets that have been required and no one balked. Acceptance of a regulation almost confers legality. "Silence gives consent."
     
  9. fortunateson

    fortunateson I hate Illinois Nazis!

    I know exactly how this will proceed. If and when it ever goes to court, the regime will argue that the iron ore in said firearm was mined out of state thus the interstate commerce clause is in effect, therefore the Ba t boys are in charge. Even a moderate judge and jury will agree.

    Now as far as the .22lr goes - maybe it's not specifically mentioned in 1934, or 1968, but the book is about as thick as a Bible, and as easy to follow as a plate of spaghetti. If it's vaguely buried in there somewhere, they take it as authorization to kick in the doors. Look at 922r - no-one can make heads or tails of that. It is a "gotcha" agency with "gotcha" rules. You can best believe there is a "gotcha" in there somewhere concerning .22
     
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Just the same way that full auto rubber BB guns are not NFA weapons. Rubber BB guns are not 'firearms' under the law. Same for full auto gasoline: more than one gallon with one pull of the trigger.

    You have any section and paragraph with this exemption SC?
     
  11. You question sounds like a great one.

    I'm sure they'd find a way to squash it pretty quickly, but it's definitely worth looking.

    Best case scenario, it comes out and makes national news, and then the BATF jumps on it.

    I have access to Lexus-Nexus, but it is incredibly massive and I wouldn't even know where to start looking. ".22 rimfire" brings up several thousand results.

    It would take a lawyer to know what to look for really, but if anyone has suggestions I'll be happy to do the searches
     
  12. CrufflerJJ

    CrufflerJJ Monkey++

    There are apparently some state specific laws making .22 weapons different from other weapons. Here in Ohio, for example, a semi-automatic weapon with a magazine capacity over 31 rounds, is deemed (ORC 2921.11E) an automatic weapon (i.e., full auto), UNLESS the caliber is .22 short/long/long rifle. So much for 32 round 9mm Sten mags, or 75 round AK mags in your semi-auto weapon. They're deemed full auto, even if they're not.
     
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